Need to gain weight (muscle) after losing 60 lbs. NEED YOUR SUGGESTIONS

[smokinHawk]

Originally Posted by Vanity

P.S. Don't take creatine you'll miss it when you're off it. Do it all natural.

lol, while your at it dont take vitamins or even eat meat either, do it all naturally. cause youll miss it when your off.
ignorance......

[lvwirelessguy]

Originally Posted by punksterz626

few pointers...

2700 calories a day...ur not gonna be gaining much muscle mass. And if you're working out that much, i assume you're losing some body mass. Eat up if you wanna get yolk.

I say at least 3100 calories. 38gs of proteins is waaaayyy too little. Thats something i take after a workout session. Should take approximately 1-2 grams of protein per lb of weight.

My model has always been 60% diet, 30% weight lifting, 10% supplements.

What you eat reflects how you look. Eat right and eat clean. Supplements should consist of these few essentials: whey protein (pre and post workout), pre workout drinks (i.e NO explode), efa, and most importantly daily vitamins.

One thing i would suggest in working out is dont worry too much on how heavy u can lift, instead, concentrate on proper movement and techniques. Ive seen too many ppl at the gym with aweful techniques. Lastly, working out should be fun, so challenge urself to new ways to conquer the same muscle group. Just dont overdo it.

You're model is slightly off. Diet is responsible for anywhere from 80-90% of any progress. Even Jay Cutler admits that for himself its about 90%

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

You're model is slightly off. Diet is responsible for anywhere from 80-90% of any progress. Even Jay Cutler admits that for himself its about 90%

I find thats hard to believe for someone who is wanting muscle. I do agree diet is most important, but without proper training it leads to nowhere.

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by Quick6EF

Pretty good advice, minus the bold.

Supplements are created to do exactly that; fill in the voids that we are not getting from whole foods.

Pre-workout supps are purely personal preference and NOT necessary.

True, but most ppl dont have necessary means to incorporate all nutrients from whole food. Its nearly impossible.

Personal, i used prework drinks bc it does help with focusing and gives me a much better boost when working out. Its nota must, but personal it help.

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by JerezFox08

its all about diet, everyone has their own point and everyone has their own method, you just have to find yours because not everyones body reacts the same

for me i workout pretty much 7 days a week but i use a 4 day cycle

i have been hitting the gym for almost 2 years now but i didnt start doing things the right way until about a year ago

so my routine at the gym is like this

Day 1 an hour of Chest then 1 hour of abs and cardio
Day 2 an hour of shoulders then 1 hour of abs and cardio
Day 3 an hour of arms (tricep/biceps) then 1 hour of abs and cardio
Day 4 an hour on back then 1 hour of abs and cardio

you can change it up once in a while too because you dont want your body and muscle to get used to the same routine

always change things, muscle shave memories too, trick your body sometimes.

PS. i know i should be doing legs and stuff too im just lazy, but i will start soon

my weight was like this, before i join the gym i was 205lbs, then i drop down to 185 lbs and now i am back up to 200lbs

hope this helps

hmm...i think ur overworking each muscle group...1 hr alone for each muscle group? thats alot.

May i suggest a 3day split

Day 1 an hour of Chest+tri then 1 hour of abs and cardio
Day 2 an hour of shoulders+arm cardio
Day 3 an hour of back + Leg then 1 hour of abs and cardio
Day 4 Rest

[lvwirelessguy]

Originally Posted by punksterz626

I find thats hard to believe for someone who is wanting muscle. I do agree diet is most important, but without proper training it leads to nowhere.

Nutrition is key for anyone wanting to put on muscle or lose weight, its just a fact. Any knowledgeable trainer or bodybuilder knows this.

Took me most of my life to realize that, but after dropping close to 80lbs since the beginning of October and very rarely doing any exercise I am a firm believer that what you put into you're body is far more important than how you train

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

Nutrition is key for anyone wanting to put on muscle or lose weight, its just a fact. Any knowledgeable trainer or bodybuilder knows this.

Took me most of my life to realize that, but after dropping close to 80lbs since the beginning of October and very rarely doing any exercise I am a firm believer that what you put into you're body is far more important than how you train

I definitely agree with nutrition is a must...i dont deny that but i wont get hugh and shredded by just eating...thats a fact.

[Quick6EF]

Originally Posted by punksterz626

True, but most ppl dont have necessary means to incorporate all nutrients from whole food. Its nearly impossible.

Personal, i used prework drinks bc it does help with focusing and gives me a much better boost when working out. Its nota must, but personal it help.

Are you serious?


I never take protein powders and hit my daily minimum of 180g from whole foods every day - in fact I end up around 200g because of the foods I eat, NOT the watery protein I drink.

[smokinHawk]

it is much better to get your daily needs from whole foods, and you should only supplement if you have trouble due to time or schedule constraints.

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by Quick6EF

Are you serious?


I never take protein powders and hit my daily minimum of 180g from whole foods every day - in fact I end up around 200g because of the foods I eat, NOT the watery protein I drink.

Yes, but im not talking just protein...

[punksterz626]

Originally Posted by smokinHawk

it is much better to get your daily needs from whole foods, and you should only supplement if you have trouble due to time or schedule constraints.

^agree

[bobloblaw]

Originally Posted by EngineCo52

dont eat more then 40g's of protein at a time...your body can only process so much

Not true

Originally Posted by Vanity

P.S. Don't take creatine you'll miss it when you're off it. Do it all natural.

Not sure if srs...

edit: strong bump by me lol

[Garduna]

Originally Posted by TK-421

Diet, diet, diet.


Also, doing HIIT right after your workout has been shown to actually boost test levels and therefore help you pack on muscle. I noticed results when I started doing it.

I've done a few HIITs right after my heavy workout and it does seem to help, tho very minor for me tho..... I usually workout 4 times a week and out of the 4, 2 times will have HIIT after the weights.

[KGB7]

I started working out again about a month ago, but this time i dont use any shakes or supplements, I just eat properly. The end result so far, im gaining muscle slower but at the same time im not gaining fat, i'm actually losing fat that i gained from drinking too much beer for the past 6 months.

So if you want to gain quality weight, stay away from shakes. It will take you longer to gain muscle but once you do, you wont lose it. Because shakes do help you gain mass faster, but you have too keep drinking them to keep muscles.

The only supplement you should be taking is mutli-vitamins.

Counting calories is pointless as well, because you can eat 1,000 calories a day and still gain fat. Its all about eating foods that are "alkaline". So you need to a Maintain a pH Balance. Too much acidic food will kill body cells and slow down muscle growth.

http://www.liquidvitaminsleader.com/...alkaline-foods

[just4kickz]

my split is

M: bi/tri
T: legs (max) 1-5 reps per set
W: upper back/chest
T: lower back (lots of deadlifts)
F: legs (volume) 10-25 reps per set
S: upper back/shoulders

i do like 5-10 minutes of cardio but nothing too intense... usually walking or cycling. and i do this so that i can wake up the next morning... too much cardio can limit your hypertrophy (muscle building) progress.

[san~man]

You overtraining your legs imo

[Quick6EF]

Originally Posted by KGB7

I started working out again about a month ago, but this time i dont use any shakes or supplements, I just eat properly. The end result so far, im gaining muscle slower but at the same time im not gaining fat, i'm actually losing fat that i gained from drinking too much beer for the past 6 months.

So if you want to gain quality weight, stay away from shakes. It will take you longer to gain muscle but once you do, you wont lose it. Because shakes do help you gain mass faster, but you have too keep drinking them to keep muscles.

The only supplement you should be taking is mutli-vitamins.

Counting calories is pointless as well, because you can eat 1,000 calories a day and still gain fat. Its all about eating foods that are "alkaline". So you need to a Maintain a pH Balance. Too much acidic food will kill body cells and slow down muscle growth.

http://www.liquidvitaminsleader.com/...alkaline-foods

I'm going to remain as calm as possible here, which is very VERY difficult because you seem to think you are correct.

I'll keep this short and sweet; everything you have just posted is utter bullshit. I mean no disrespect, but there are people who will read that an actually believe you.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by Quick6EF

I'm going to remain as calm as possible here, which is very VERY difficult because you seem to think you are correct.

I'll keep this short and sweet; everything you have just posted is utter bullshit. I mean no disrespect, but there are people who will read that an actually believe you.

I'll keep this short and sweet; everything you have just posted is utter bullshit. I mean no disrespect, but there are people who will read that an actually believe you.

There is an old saying you should try; The door swings both ways.

[Quick6EF]

Originally Posted by KGB7

I'll keep this short and sweet; everything you have just posted is utter bullshit. I mean no disrespect, but there are people who will read that an actually believe you.

There is an old saying you should try; The door swings both ways.

I'm going to bold some of the really bad stuff:

Originally Posted by KGB7

I started working out again about a month ago, but this time i dont use any shakes or supplements, I just eat properly. The end result so far, im gaining muscle slower but at the same time im not gaining fat, i'm actually losing fat that i gained from drinking too much beer for the past 6 months.

So if you want to gain quality weight, stay away from shakes. It will take you longer to gain muscle but once you do, you wont lose it. Because shakes do help you gain mass faster, but you have too keep drinking them to keep muscles.

The only supplement you should be taking is mutli-vitamins.
Counting calories is pointless as well, because you can eat 1,000 calories a day and still gain fat. Its all about eating foods that are "alkaline". So you need to a Maintain a pH Balance. Too much acidic food will kill body cells and slow down muscle growth.

http://www.liquidvitaminsleader.com/...alkaline-foods

So if you want to gain quality weight, stay away from shakes. It will take you longer to gain muscle but once you do, you wont lose it. Because shakes do help you gain mass faster, but you have too keep drinking them to keep muscles.
By 'shakes' I assume you mean protein shakes? Which are supplements, they are made to fill the gaps whole foods are not proving in your diet, ie your protein requirements.

You lose lose LBM when in a caloric deficit, not because you stopped drinking a supplement that is just Aminos and Whey.

Where in the world would you think that 'shakes' keep your muscles from falling off? Again, a caloric deficit will result in loss of LBM


Counting calories is pointless as well, because you can eat 1,000 calories a day and still gain fat. Its all about eating foods that are "alkaline". So you need to a Maintain a pH Balance. Too much acidic food will kill body cells and slow down muscle growth
Counting calories is the best way to get the results you want. I count everything. I fit the foods I enjoy because I count.

If a grown man (6' 200LBS for example) was eating 1,000 calories a day, he would be in the hospital.

Regarding that stuff about pH and that link you posted, I'll just say that too much of anything is bad for you.



Here is a great read on supplements:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ts-part-1.html

Supplements Part 1
On the support forum is a thread where folks can make suggestions for articles. Among them, someone mentioned an article on supplements. I had previously (I think in one of the newsletters) made a list of my ‘Top 10 supplements’ or whatever but since the archives are now defunct, it needed to be recreated. Since what I want to do is going to be long, as usual I’m going to split it into two pieces.

For the record, this is actually the near entirety of Chapter 11 from the soon to be completed project: Applied Nutrition for Mixed Sports. I had mentioned this in the last newsletter and the final files are being processed right now, after one more edit it will be made available. Probably in about 2 more weeks.

The project actually started life as a seminar I did in Vancouver last year for the Simon Fraser University soccer and football athletes. When completed, the product will include 2 DVD’s along with the original Powerpoint slides as well as a complete 80 page stand alone book examining the topic that I wrote to go along with it (the book started out as handouts I gave to the athletes but I decided to write an entire book around the handouts). As always, newsletter subscribers will get first crack at it at a discounted price so go sign up if you haven’t already.

And with that out of the way, here’s a quick look at the topic of supplements, while the information was originally aimed at mixed sports (think team sports, boxing, MMA, anything that requires a mix of strength, endurance, etc. for performance), what I have to say pretty much applies to other areas as well including bodybuilding and pure strength training.

Of course, I’m sure readers will have some pet supplement that they take for some very specific reason (e.g. B12 because they lack the absorption factor, or something to control blood cholesterol or whatever). The list below isn’t meant to be comprehensive. Rather, it’s meant to look at the supplements that have the most broadly generalized use and application (for all types of athletes) along with having research or backing to support their use. So please don’t get edgy in the comments if I left out something that you just swear by for some very specific use.


.

Chapter 11: Supplements

If there is a single area of sports nutrition that is constantly changing (in terms of the products being marketed) and which athletes are always interested in it’s dietary supplements. As I mentioned in Chapter 2 of this book, I consider supplementation to be the third tier of the pyramid (after overall daily nutrition and around workout nutrition) in terms of what athletes should concern themselves with. Even there, I divide dietary supplements into several categories and want to present another pyramid for dietary supplements, shown in Figure 1 below.







Just as with the overall nutritional pyramid, I put supplements into three categories in terms of their relative importance. The first is simply general supplements, either acting as nutritional insurance or essential nutrients (such as fish oils) that almost all mixed sports athletes can benefit from. Once those have been taken care of consistently, supplements that directly impact on performance and which have good research backing should be considered. Once that tier has been taken care of, various supplements which I term esoterica (this category is always changing) can be considered.

The tip of this pyramid should only be considered by athletes who have all aspects of both their overall diet, around workout nutrition and other supplements taken care of. Simply, esoteric products can, at best, provide the last tiny percentage point for performance and recovery. Worrying about that when the majority aspects of diet and supplementation have not been taken care of consistently is pointless.

.

General Use Supplements

As noted above, general use supplements are those products that basically all athletes can not only benefit from but probably should at least consider. Short of correcting a frank deficiency, they don’t generally have vast noticeable improvements in performance per se; rather they simply support overall health and daily nutritional requirements.

Many of the nutrients discussed below are simply those that are commonly deficient among athletes, others (e.g. vitamin D, fish oil) are usually deficient in just about everyone. Generally, these supplements should be taken with meals and doses can be split morning and evening and taken with meals.

Multivitamin/Mineral

As I mentioned in a previous chapter, there are both reasons to believe that athletes need increased amounts of vitamins/minerals due to their heavy training as well as that they get more due to increased nutrient intake. I consider a basic one per day multi-vitamin/mineral a cheap nutritional insurance. It won’t hurt and may correct and/or prevent any minor deficiencies.

For the most part, I see little need to purchase super expensive formulations, athletes who are obsessed with such can buy cheaper and simply take two (split morning and evening). I would note that men, especially those who eat a lot of red meat, may want to find a product that does not contain iron. Women, due to their propensity to develop anemia (due to both dietary choices and monthly blood loss) should choose a product containing iron.

As a final note, under no circumstances should athletes assume that they can ignore important aspects of their overall diet because their multi- will ‘cover it’.

Protein Powders

As discussed in a previous chapter, protein powders have been staple of athletic nutrition for decades and exist somewhere between food and a supplement. While obtaining all but the highest intakes of protein can generally be done with nothing more than food, protein powders can provide convenience and flexibility for athletes having problems meeting their protein needs. They can be especially valuable when athletes travel and may have their normal food patterns disrupted. Specific types of protein powder are discussed in Chapter 4.

For the most part, buying protein powders commercially is a losing proposition, you will pay twice as much for half the product and I recommend that athletes find reliable online suppliers to purchase protein powder in bulk. I’ve provided a few online resources at the end of this book that I trust to provide quality product at a good price.

Fish Oils/Essential Fatty Acids

If there is a single nutrient that is almost impossible to achieve adequate amounts of with the modern diet (outside of the handful of people who eat a lot of fatty fish), it’s the w-3 fish oils. In a very real sense, fish oils ‘do everything’ and impact on not only overall health but help to control inflammation, promote fat oxidation, inhibit fat storage and a host of others. It’s a list of benefits that seems almost too good to be true but the research is there.

Due to their general unavailability in the food supply, supplementation is almost necessary and both pills (containing varying amounts of the active EPA/DHA) and liquids are available. Both are acceptable and some people simply prefer the liquids (which can be used on salads or in blender drinks) to pills (which often cause burps).

Years ago, flaxseed oil was suggested as a source of the essential fatty acids as it contains the parent fatty acid that can be converted into EPA/DHA. However, that conversion is exceedingly inefficient in most people (vegetarians appear to be an exception to this for some reason) and I do not feel that flax is an acceptable substitute for fish oil supplementation. I suggest that athletes find an omega-3 fatty acid source that they like and consume it daily (again, consuming cold water or fatty fish is also a possibility).

While little research has examined athletes, I recommend a total intake of EPA/DHA of 1.8-3.0 grams per day. A fairly standard capsule of fish oils may contain 120 mg EPA and 180 mg DHA (300 mg total fish oils) so that daily dose would require 6-10 capsules per day which should be split at least morning and evening (taken with meals).


Higher concentration fish oils are available (at a premium cost) but may be preferred by athletes who don’t like swallowing pills. Again, the goal should be a total EPA/DHA intake of 1.8-3.0 grams per day regardless of how it is obtained.

Calcium

As I mentioned previously, calcium deficiencies are not unheard of in athletes; this is especially true if athletes can’t or won’t consume dairy products. And from an overall health issue, calcium is critical, perhaps more so for female athletes to ensure good bone health later in life. Of course, telling athletes to take something on health grounds is often a losing proposition so consider that a great deal of research suggests that calcium (and dairy calcium more than other forms) may improve body composition.

A minimum daily intake of 1000mg calcium is recommended and I’d note that a single serving of most dairy foods will contain roughly 300 mg. If you consume 3 servings per day of dairy, you needn’t supplement. If your intake is less than this, you may need to consider a supplement (multi-vitamin/mineral pills never contain sufficient amounts).

Calcium citrate is the preferred form and most calcium products will contain some Vitamin D as well (see next). Calcium supplementation should be split into two doses consumed morning and evening with meals as this provides better overall uptake.

Vitamin D

It’s not an exaggeration to say that concerns about Vitamin D levels are currently a ‘hot-topic’ in nutrition. And while Vitamin D can be made by the body (through exposure of the skin to sunlight), it’s turning out that Vitamin D deficiencies are absolutely epidemic, especially for people who work indoors and/or live in cold weather countries where sun exposure is minimal.

Athletes who are forced to train indoors for weather reasons are potentially at risk as well. This is true even of athletes who train outdoors part of the year as Vitamin D levels in the body fall fairly quickly when regular sun exposure is eliminated.

It also looks like maintaining adequate Vitamin D status may be a key to optimal athletic performance although direct research is lacking. Unfortunately, determining serum levels of Vitamin D intake to determine optimal levels of supplementation requires blood work. Athlete with access to testing should strive for levels of 50 ng/ml or higher. It requires 100 IU’s of Vitamin D to raise serum levels by 1 ng/ml and athletes with access to blood testing can determine their daily dose that way (e.g. to raise levels from 30ng/ml to 50 ng/ml would require 2000 IU’s per day).

Failing that, a daily supplementation level of 2000 IU’s should be safe and reasonable for most. Blood work is still preferred and this is another place where mega-dosing (greater than perhaps 10,000 IU’s per day) can be problematic. More isn’t better.

For athletes who don’t want to take yet another pill, tanning once or twice weekly provides another way to obtain Vitamin D. Don’t go nuts with it (as excessive UV skin exposure carries its own health risks) but small amounts during cold weather or periods where sun exposure is minimal are not harmful and may help.

Zinc/Magnesium

As mentioned previously, both zinc and magnesium are often deficient in athletes; zinc is often low in athletes who forego red meat and magnesium losses increase with heavy training. Both are critical for optimal performance and various processes important to athletes. As well, many find that the combination of the two taken at bedtime helps with sleep, a process critical to overall recovery.

On average, a daily supplement of 25 mg of zinc (any form is basically fine) with 400-500 mg of magnesium (citrate is the preferred form) taken 30 minutes before bedtime helps many go to sleep. While many commercial zinc/magnesium products contain B-6, this seems to hurt sleep for some people and I suggest buying the ingredients separately if they are taken. I’d note that magnesium oxide, which is the most commonly found form of magnesium is poorly absorbed, as noted above citrate is the preferred form.

Glutamine

A supplement that is insanely popular with bodybuilders (who think it builds muscle, which it doesn’t), glutamine is an inessential amino acid that is heavily involved in immune system function. Given the propensity of athletes to suffer problems with their immune system secondary to heavy training, anything that helps support the immune system is potentially good.

The research on glutamine and immune system function is actually rather mixed, some finds that it works while other work has not. It’s more likely that branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) supplementation, discussed in the next section, works as well if not better.

From a purely experiential standpoint, I have found that the consumption of high doses of glutamine and Vitamin C at the first sign of a cold tends to stop it in its tracks. Two to three grams of glutamine with 500mg of Vitamin C taken multiple times throughout the day seems to do the trick.

Anti-Oxidants

The term anti-oxidant actually refers to a massive number of different compounds (including but not limited to Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Vitamin A, Beta-carotene and many others) that help to scavenge free radicals in the body. Free radicals are formed during heavy exercise and early ideas held that this was damaging to the body.

And while it is true that excessive free radical production can cause problems, research actually has found that free radical production is critical in signaling adaptations to training; blocking free radical formation can actually inhibit proper adaptation to training, especially endurance training.

Additionally, while research on diets that are high in anti-oxidants (e.g. whole food diets containing lots of fruits and vegetables) often find health benefits, studies using isolated anti-oxidants have generally not found the same results. This again points to the importance of obtaining most nutrients from whole foods rather than isolated pills.

For the most part I do not advocate the intake of high-dose isolated anti-oxidants for mixed sports athletes under most circumstances. An exception is the high-dose Vitamin C mentioned above with glutamine when an athlete starts to feel a cold coming on. This is especially true during primary training phases where excessive anti-oxidant supplementation have the potential to impair optimal adaptation.

However, during the season, when the goal is primarily to survive competition (which may be very frequent depending on the sport), supplementation may be useful. Some athletes report decreased soreness and improved recovery. Since the goal in-season is competition and not improving fitness or training adaptations, this may be worth considering.

So while avoiding anti-oxidants during the main training period is probably the best course of action, there may be some merit to supplementation to survive a heavy competition season.

On Friday in Supplements Part 2, I’ll continue with Performance Supplements and Esoterica.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by Quick6EF

I'm going to bold some of the really bad stuff:



So if you want to gain quality weight, stay away from shakes. It will take you longer to gain muscle but once you do, you wont lose it. Because shakes do help you gain mass faster, but you have too keep drinking them to keep muscles.
By 'shakes' I assume you mean protein shakes? Which are supplements, they are made to fill the gaps whole foods are not proving in your diet, ie your protein requirements.

You lose lose LBM when in a caloric deficit, not because you stopped drinking a supplement that is just Aminos and Whey.

Where in the world would you think that 'shakes' keep your muscles from falling off? Again, a caloric deficit will result in loss of LBM


Counting calories is pointless as well, because you can eat 1,000 calories a day and still gain fat. Its all about eating foods that are "alkaline". So you need to a Maintain a pH Balance. Too much acidic food will kill body cells and slow down muscle growth
Counting calories is the best way to get the results you want. I count everything. I fit the foods I enjoy because I count.

If a grown man (6' 200LBS for example) was eating 1,000 calories a day, he would be in the hospital.

Regarding that stuff about pH and that link you posted, I'll just say that too much of anything is bad for you.


Here is a great read on supplements:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ts-part-1.html

1st. You confirmed what i said is true. If you take away the shakes, you start losing the things they gave you in the first place. It wont be over night, or over a week time. This what you assumed and why you jumped the gun.

2nd. You can eat 1,000 calories a day and not end up in the hospital. Its not about how much of calories you eat, but where those calories come from. Veggies have calories, and vegans live on a very low calorie diet, yet none of them ever went to a hospital because of low calorie consumption. You will lose weight if you consume low amount of calories, but you would have to end at 100lb or less to end up in the hospital.

Many people switch to a strict vegan diet for a month or more to lose a lot of weight safely while remaining healthy and become healthier in the process of doing so.


Simple question for you. Why do fat people stay fat even if they drink 0 calorie sodas??

[Quick6EF]

Originally Posted by KGB7

1st. You confirmed what i said is true. If you take away the shakes, you start losing the things they gave you in the first place. It wont be over night, or over a week time. This what you assumed and why you jumped the gun.

2nd. You can eat 1,000 calories a day and not end up in the hospital. Its not about how much of calories you eat, but where those calories come from. Veggies have calories, and vegans live on a very low calorie diet, yet none of them ever went to a hospital because of low calorie consumption. You will lose weight if you consume low amount of calories, but you would have to end at 100lb or less to end up in the hospital.

Many people switch to a strict vegan diet for a month or more to lose a lot of weight safely while remaining healthy and become healthier in the process of doing so.


Simple question for you. Why do fat people stay fat even if they drink 0 calorie sodas??

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by KGB7

Simple question for you. Why do fat people stay fat even if they drink 0 calorie sodas??

Because they eat... a lot.