Honda S2000 vs. M6

[Robert]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Of course on shorter thacks the difference in seconds will be smaller. But do some math and look at the %'s and you may find that M6 still wins no problem.

Missing the point bud. M6 doesn't provide 2x the performance around those tracks above being more than 2x as expensive.
Mentioned afore there is no ill feeling against M6 so relax

[phoenixbmwlife]

The S2000 is an amazing car. My cousin has one but its just not in the same legue/class as an M6. So it comes down to the fun factor.

Some will think the S2000 is more fun to drive cause it's a nimble roadster with a 9000rpm redline. Some will say the M6 is more fun cause it has 500 horses of shear power with a carbon fiber roof and can beat almost any car on the road. So it's all about preference.

But back on topic it's not even remotely surprising that the M6 pulled away as it did. It's just simple physics.

[imolazhp_ci]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

The S2000 is an amazing car. My cousin has one but its just not in the same legue/class as an M6. So it comes down to the fun factor.

Some will think the S2000 is more fun to drive cause it's a nimble roadster with a 9000rpm redline. Some will say the M6 is more fun cause it has 500 horses of shear power with a carbon fiber roof and can beat almost any car on the road. So it's all about preference.

But back on topic it's not even remotely surprising that the M6 pulled away as it did. It's just simple physics.

i had an S2000 and i HAVE an M5 and S2000 is wayyyyy more fun to drive. more fun than my M Coupe even. the M5/6 is fun if going really fast in a really long straight line is fine, which it can be... but it isn't exciting. it handles good for a HUGE car, it doesn't handle good on a general basis of capability. it handles amazing FOR a 4000 lbs car.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

i had an S2000 and i HAVE an M5 and S2000 is wayyyyy more fun to drive. more fun than my M Coupe even. the M5/6 is fun if going really fast in a really long straight line is fine, which it can be... but it isn't exciting. it handles good for a HUGE car, it doesn't handle good on a general basis of capability. it handles amazing FOR a 4000 lbs car.

Yeh like I said it's all about preference. I drove my cousin's car once and we drive around and it's so much fun especially when you leave the RPMS high. The sound of the exhaust is amazing and the car pulls like crazy. I just wish it had more torque though like around 250.

OT Question: When you first got your S2000, how long did it take you to find the gas lever? Lol it took me like 5 min and I just gave up and had my cousin tell me where it was hehe. He was at the gas station and took him over 5 min and he had to open the owners manual to find it. I thought that was so funny.

[imolazhp_ci]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

Yeh like I said it's all about preference. I drove my cousin's car once and we drive around and it's so much fun especially when you leave the RPMS high. The sound of the exhaust is amazing and the car pulls like crazy. I just wish it had more torque though like around 250.

OT Question: When you first got your S2000, how long did it take you to find the gas lever? Lol it took me like 5 min and I just gave up and had my cousin tell me where it was hehe. He was at the gas station and took him over 5 min and he had to open the owners manual to find it. I thought that was so funny.

hahahaha yeah me too... i was searching for a few minutes like an idiot and then i had to open the owners manual to find it and was like "man what a dumb design." but yeah, the S2000 is a real gem. below 4000RPM it is so incredibly docile and i averaged like nearly 30 mpg in the city. and then past 4000 RPM the thing simply rips. the S2K would absolutely DUST my ZHP and with the combo of me being a competent driver and most evo drivers not being very competent. it's possible to hang with stock evo's around town. haha. a little city racing.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

hahahaha yeah me too... i was searching for a few minutes like an idiot and then i had to open the owners manual to find it and was like "man what a dumb design."

hahaaa

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

Damn. Shot down. However, if we can compare a $100k USD M6 to a 30k USD S2000.... then I can easily proceed to come back with THIS:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=4585753fa2d14

now find a bmw to top that one.

Since the 997 is newer its more fair to comare it to the 996 generation since they were being produced at the same time.Compare the 997 GT3 to E92 M3 CSL

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=4585753fa2d14

Porsche still wins but barely.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

i had an S2000 and i HAVE an M5 and S2000 is wayyyyy more fun to drive. more fun than my M Coupe even. the M5/6 is fun if going really fast in a really long straight line is fine, which it can be... but it isn't exciting. it handles good for a HUGE car, it doesn't handle good on a general basis of capability. it handles amazing FOR a 4000 lbs car.

+1. Man I thought I was a crazy loon trying to give some credit where it's due. Almost impossible here sometimes.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by bobbo

Missing the point bud. M6 doesn't provide 2x the performance around those tracks above being more than 2x as expensive.
Mentioned afore there is no ill feeling against M6 so relax

Well, a Ferrari doesn't offer 10x the performance of a S2k, but its still a Ferrari. So what is exactly your point? There is more to the car than just "performace". Cars aren't priced only according to performance.

[imolazhp_ci]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Well, a Ferrari doesn't offer 10x the performance of a S2k, but its still a Ferrari. So what is exactly your point? There is more to the car than just "performace". Cars aren't priced only according to performance.

yeah and the honda has like 15 times the build quality of the ferrari or the M6 so the gap becomes even larger.

[T Bone]

Let me just make an observation as a long time trackie...I know I talk alot smack about Audis and even other cars....hey it is just fan boy fun.

At the track, you get respect for being fast no matter what you drive because it is about the driver. Sure BMWs / Porsches are nice but if you get an Integra Type R beating Porsches on the track, no one ever looks down on the Type R.

That being said, let me return to the regularly scheduled program....

Audis are for girls....FTW

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

oh man! did you see the one of the z06 raping that tercel?? awesome!!!

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Let me just make an observation as a long time trackie...I know I talk alot smack about Audis and even other cars....hey it is just fan boy fun.

At the track, you get respect for being fast no matter what you drive because it is about the driver. Sure BMWs / Porsches are nice but if you get an Integra Type R beating Porsches on the track, no one ever looks down on the Type R.

That being said, let me return to the regularly scheduled program....

Audis are for girls....FTW

+1 and Quattro is for people who can't drive

[gonzo]

[herbz]

S2000 is a great car, no doubt about it. but there are several things that prevent me from giving it "full credit" where credit is due.

1. The pricetag is enormous (over 35k? 135i please) for a car with 200hp and virtually 0 torque.
2. it's a convertible, if they made a coupe version the chassis would be even better than it already is.
3. again the car has 0 torque. driving this car as an everyday driver would be annoying as hell. i'd have to downshift to 6k RPM to beat a toyota camry. hell, could the s2000 even beat a camry on the straight? i kind of doubt it.

not dissing the s2000's track ability, as it is lightweight, RWD, has a great shifter, clutch, engine with a huge redline etc. but i would not pay over 35 grand to have this car as an every day driver, there are just too many drawbacks.

and yes i do like small cars, i drive an e30. just my opinion.

[imolazhp_ci]

Originally Posted by herbz

S2000 is a great car, no doubt about it. but there are several things that prevent me from giving it "full credit" where credit is due.

1. The pricetag is enormous (over 35k? 135i please) for a car with 200hp and virtually 0 torque.
2. it's a convertible, if they made a coupe version the chassis would be even better than it already is.
3. again the car has 0 torque. driving this car as an everyday driver would be annoying as hell. i'd have to downshift to 6k RPM to beat a toyota camry. hell, could the s2000 even beat a camry on the straight? i kind of doubt it.

not dissing the s2000's track ability, as it is lightweight, RWD, has a great shifter, clutch, engine with a huge redline etc. but i would not pay over 35 grand to have this car as an every day driver, there are just too many drawbacks.

and yes i do like small cars, i drive an e30. just my opinion.

you are entitled to your opinion but a great deal of what you said is simply not true. i'll address point by point...
1. the pricetag, retail price on the car is $34,600. not "over" $35,000. and at that, they can be had at any dealership for invoice all day long which is only $29,900. seconds, the car has 240 or 237 HP depending on model years. and when considering the weight, the power to weight ratio is actually better than that of a 335i. 11.6 lbs./hp for the S2000 and 12lbs./hp for the 335i. furthermore, regarding torque, look at any M car, the torque on those is an absolute joke compared to their HP/L. and at that, MOST track cars have far more HP than torque because torque is good for exiting turns, but too much torque at corner entry or through the apex diminishes stability. obviously, you have never driven one as an everyday driver based on your completely incorrect assumption that it would be hell... 80% of it's torque is available at 4000 RPM's which is very good for an engine of that redline/Compression ration.
2. maybe, maybe not, the fact of the matter is that the S2000 is the second most rigid convertible ever produced, next to a 996 Turbo S Vert, which actually has MORE torsional rigidity than the coupe version due to it's many body reinforcements and braces. if you knew about chassis design, you would see that the S2000 is the best designed roofless chassis ever, simply because it doesn't rely on any braces of cross members for its rigidity, the chassis is designed AS a convertible, it is not like convertible variants of coupes where they have to compensate for the lack of the roof, therefore your argument is moot.

3. you have obviously never REALLY driven an S2000....the thing absolutely hauls ass above 80MPH and it reaches 161MPH FAR faster than my buddies SC 330. the car is a purely high revving screaming at high RPM's and is hard to keep up with for many cars much more expensive. this car literally defies the top end displacement argument, how? i do not know. and you obviously have never driven one of a track because the only thing that BMW even currently makes that is at all remotely comparable in handling is the M Coupe.

[PatsE92]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

you are entitled to your opinion but a great deal of what you said is simply not true. i'll address point by point...
1. the pricetag, retail price on the car is $34,600. not "over" $35,000. and at that, they can be had at any dealership for invoice all day long which is only $29,900. seconds, the car has 240 or 237 HP depending on model years. and when considering the weight, the power to weight ratio is actually better than that of a 335i. 11.6 lbs./hp for the S2000 and 12lbs./hp for the 335i. furthermore, regarding torque, look at any M car, the torque on those is an absolute joke compared to their HP/L. and at that, MOST track cars have far more HP than torque because torque is good for exiting turns, but too much torque at corner entry or through the apex diminishes stability. obviously, you have never driven one as an everyday driver based on your completely incorrect assumption that it would be hell... 80% of it's torque is available at 4000 RPM's which is very good for an engine of that redline/Compression ration.
2. maybe, maybe not, the fact of the matter is that the S2000 is the second most rigid convertible ever produced, next to a 996 Turbo S Vert, which actually has MORE torsional rigidity than the coupe version due to it's many body reinforcements and braces. if you knew about chassis design, you would see that the S2000 is the best designed roofless chassis ever, simply because it doesn't rely on any braces of cross members for its rigidity, the chassis is designed AS a convertible, it is not like convertible variants of coupes where they have to compensate for the lack of the roof, therefore your argument is moot.

3. you have obviously never REALLY driven an S2000....the thing absolutely hauls ass above 80MPH and it reaches 161MPH FAR faster than my buddies SC 330. the car is a purely high revving screaming at high RPM's and is hard to keep up with for many cars much more expensive. this car literally defies the top end displacement argument, how? i do not know. and you obviously have never driven one of a track because the only thing that BMW even currently makes that is at all remotely comparable in handling is the M Coupe.

+100

From a former s2k AP2 owner.

I miss that car everyday and it was my daily driver before the E92.


Pat

[TheAcAvenger]

I agree with everything imola said. Such an amazing machine that never failed to remind you that it was a machine. If I were shorter, i'd have one.

But, anyone thats ever driven an S2000 and an NSX will tell you that a wee bit more power never hurt anyone.

[CokerRat]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

But, anyone thats ever driven an S2000 and an NSX will tell you that a wee bit more power never hurt anyone.

Preach it, brother! I'm an NSXer in my past life. Both those cars may not make a lot of peak torque as a number, but they makes it at high rpm's which allow it to take advantage of gearing.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by herbz

S2000 is a great car, no doubt about it. but there are several things that prevent me from giving it "full credit" where credit is due.

1. The pricetag is enormous (over 35k? 135i please) for a car with 200hp and virtually 0 torque.
2. it's a convertible, if they made a coupe version the chassis would be even better than it already is.
3. again the car has 0 torque. driving this car as an everyday driver would be annoying as hell. i'd have to downshift to 6k RPM to beat a toyota camry. hell, could the s2000 even beat a camry on the straight? i kind of doubt it.

not dissing the s2000's track ability, as it is lightweight, RWD, has a great shifter, clutch, engine with a huge redline etc. but i would not pay over 35 grand to have this car as an every day driver, there are just too many drawbacks.

and yes i do like small cars, i drive an e30. just my opinion.

To make comments like what you said its obvious you have never driven an S2000.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

To make comments like what you said its obvious you have never driven an S2000.

Ignorance is bliss.

+1.

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

Originally Posted by Jaws

+1.

+2