Let's Not Forget that On This Day (June 6) 72 Years Ago..

[Lups]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

How soon they forget. This was not a "bunch of Americans", it was a bunch of Americans, Brits, and Canadians ... with a significant number of Australians, Kiwis, Free French, and expat soldiers from Poland, Belgium, and the Netherlands.

While the American contributions was massive, it's also a typically American approach to forget that D-Day was only successful because of what the Brits did at Sword and Gold beaches and what the Canadians did at Juno beach (not to mention what was learned by the earlier Canadian invasion at Dieppe and the successful landings at Anzio by the British, Canadian, and American forces).

Lol, I had a good discussion about this a while back with my canadian friend.

It's not that we forget (and remember finland was pretty much fucked over by everyone and we ended up fighting with the Germans side by side) but the separation of canada, Australia, and other colonies was not as great as it is now. Our books outlined that gb did the real work, while Americans laid on their arses until japan started to act up. Then there is a small print saying that great Britain then had resources other than just the island.

Truth to be told, europe was so screwed then we needed everyone. Thank you, all the world for the help we got. It was truly needed.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Lups

Lol, I had a good discussion about this a while back with my canadian friend.

It's not that we forget (and remember finland was pretty much fucked over by everyone and we ended up fighting with the Germans side by side) but the separation of canada, Australia, and other colonies was not as great as it is now. Our books outlined that gb did the real work, while Americans laid on their arses until japan started to act up. Then there is a small print saying that great Britain then had resources other than just the island.

Truth to be told, europe was so screwed then we needed everyone. Thank you, all the world for the help we got. It was truly needed.

That touches on the whole idea of former colonies forming their own national identities and moving from being part of the British Empire to fully fledged nations. In our case, that was completely tied up in military contribution and success. Probably started in the Boer War, but the real nucleus of a Canadian national identity was formed in the trenches of WWI at Vimy Ridge, Paschendale, and the other places that the Canadian Corps cowed the Germans into giving up their territory and their fighting spirit. That was the first time that Canadians fought as a national army under Canadian command.

That continued in WWII with the contributions of the Canadian army, navy, and air force throughout the war (and especially at Dieppe and Anzio) convincing Churchill/Roosevelt as well as Eisenhower/Montgomery that Canada had earned the right to be an equal partner in D-Day with the assignment at Juno. Canadian forces landed by a Canadian navy with air cover by Canadian pilots.

Very much of the birth of our national identity is rooted in what happened on European battlefields. It's not just those soldiers from all Allied forces who landed at D-Day that we should honour and salute ... it's those who fought in trenches in WWI, to frozen hills in Korea, all the way to Khandahar. We owe them all and we owe those they fought alongside, be they British, Australian, American, or French.

I don't know much about the Australian or Kiwi experience so can't really comment.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

That touches on the whole idea of former colonies forming their own national identities and moving from being part of the British Empire to fully fledged nations. In our case, that was completely tied up in military contribution and success. Probably started in the Boer War, but the real nucleus of a Canadian national identity was formed in the trenches of WWI at Vimy Ridge, Paschendale, and the other places that the Canadian Corps cowed the Germans into giving up their territory and their fighting spirit. That was the first time that Canadians fought as a national army under Canadian command.

That continued in WWII with the contributions of the Canadian army, navy, and air force throughout the war (and especially at Dieppe and Anzio) convincing Churchill/Roosevelt as well as Eisenhower/Montgomery that Canada had earned the right to be an equal partner in D-Day with the assignment at Juno. Canadian forces landed by a Canadian navy with air cover by Canadian pilots.

Very much of the birth of our national identity is rooted in what happened on European battlefields. It's not just those soldiers from all Allied forces who landed at D-Day that we should honour and salute ... it's those who fought in trenches in WWI, to frozen hills in Korea, all the way to Khandahar. We owe them all and we owe those they fought alongside, be they British, Australian, American, or French.

I don't know much about the Australian or Kiwi experience so can't really comment.

You pretty much summarized the conversation I had with a friend. It is fascinating to see the ww II from a new angle which brings these things to the surface. It also points out clearly how the history books of each nation show those times from a different perspective.

If we exclude the Russian copies, it is easy to agree that the world was seriously fucked up back then. We can only wait what the editions 70 years from now will say about the world we live in now.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

You pretty much summarized the conversation I had with a friend. It is fascinating to see the ww II from a new angle which brings these things to the surface. It also points out clearly how the history books of each nation show those times from a different perspective.

If we exclude the Russian copies, it is easy to agree that the world was seriously fucked up back then. We can only wait what the editions 70 years from now will say about the world we live in now.

So...if we exclude the Russian copies then you say there is a general consensus that the world was messed up, does that mean if we include the Russian copies the world was a wonderful place back then?

This begs the question - WHAT is in those Russian copies? WHAT? I really want to know.

Maybe it could be extrapolated to today and make today a better place?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

So...if we exclude the Russian copies then you say there is a general consensus that the world was messed up, does that mean if we include the Russian copies the world was a wonderful place back then?

This begs the question - WHAT is in those Russian copies? WHAT? I really want to know.

Maybe it could be extrapolated to today and make today a better place?

Well, it was a hard time according to them too, but their good fellow stalin in his wisdom made good calls and their road to triumph was easy. You know, the usual bs and 20 million own killed forgotten. they even at some point walked through Finland.