Intermittent Fasting

[UncleWede]

Around 10 weeks now. Not religious in following, but after dinner generally nothing until lunch. Lunchtime keeps creeping closer to 11:30 instead of 12:30, but I get to work by 6.

Yesterday I had some bits and pieces of food between arrival and lunch. I caught myself sleeping at my desk about 2. THAT hasn't happened in about 9 weeks. . .

Weight loss has plateau at about 10 lbs off, but it's making running/soccer more manageable the next day, pain-wise. Generally only have to wear the boot for a single night after either of those activities. 10 more, and I might be able to put the boot in storage.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Around 10 weeks now. Not religious in following, but after dinner generally nothing until lunch. Lunchtime keeps creeping closer to 11:30 instead of 12:30, but I get to work by 6.

Yesterday I had some bits and pieces of food between arrival and lunch. I caught myself sleeping at my desk about 2. THAT hasn't happened in about 9 weeks. . .

Weight loss has plateau at about 10 lbs off, but it's making running/soccer more manageable the next day, pain-wise. Generally only have to wear the boot for a single night after either of those activities. 10 more, and I might be able to put the boot in storage.

I've been doing it for a few months now, the first few weeks were difficult. I don't eat after dinner which is about 8pm, I have lunch after 11am but I'm an early riser. So go about 16 hours. I have lost about 12 pounds and seem to have plateaued. I guess I'm going to have to eat healthier when I do.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Around 10 weeks now. Not religious in following, but after dinner generally nothing until lunch. Lunchtime keeps creeping closer to 11:30 instead of 12:30, but I get to work by 6.

Yesterday I had some bits and pieces of food between arrival and lunch. I caught myself sleeping at my desk about 2. THAT hasn't happened in about 9 weeks. . .

Weight loss has plateau at about 10 lbs off, but it's making running/soccer more manageable the next day, pain-wise. Generally only have to wear the boot for a single night after either of those activities. 10 more, and I might be able to put the boot in storage.

I found that when cutting and doing crazy amounts of cardio (I do not recommend this btw) I found it hard to make it through the day without damn near falling asleep at my desk.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I found that when cutting and doing crazy amounts of cardio (I do not recommend this btw) I found it hard to make it through the day without damn near falling asleep at my desk.

I actually think it's a bit of the sugar crash, even though I'm on the fixed amount of insulin I inject. And yesterday was caffeine day, so I have no excuse other than food. I even had diet Coke with my lunch.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I actually think it's a bit of the sugar crash, even though I'm on the fixed amount of insulin I inject. And yesterday was caffeine day, so I have no excuse other than food. I even had diet Coke with my lunch.

I can see that. I would imagine that from my lack of 8 solid hours of sleep, over-expenditure of calories consumed, a caloric deficit, and the copious amounts of caffeine to make up for the lack of sleep.........and potentially picking the wrong week to stop doing crystal meth, was the root of my sleepiness.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I can see that. I would imagine that from my lack of 8 solid hours of sleep, over-expenditure of calories consumed, a caloric deficit, and the copious amounts of caffeine to make up for the lack of sleep.........and potentially picking the wrong week to stop doing crystal meth, was the root of my sleepiness.

I picked the wrong month to stop sniffing glue . . . Over

[tenblade2001]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I do somewhat of intermittent fasting. I tend to stick with the 16/8 method, but due to my schedule and when I go to the gym, the only calories consumed in the evening come in the form of a protein shake post-work workout with about 5mg of creatine added. I loosely stick to this eating plan. Some weeks, I'm on it daily and stay within 15-50 calories +/- of my 500 kcal/day deficit. Some weeks, it's impossible to stick to as I work in an office where lunch is catered several times a month and I have a girlfriend that likes to cook for me. I'm not going to be an asshole and not eat what people cook for me, so some days it works; some days it doesn't.

I also pay crazy attention to the number of calories I take in, in a day, as well as my macros. From November 10th of last year, I've lost 71 pounds and somewhere around 13-14% body fat.

are you fasting for health or weight loss?

[1MOREMOD]

I need caffeine, glue and meth and I'm still sleepy. Not in calorie deficit either. Never sleep 8 hrs solid I'm old and get up pee.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by tenblade2001

are you fasting for health or weight loss?

Was doing it for weight loss. Now I'm simply continuing it until I can gain enough muscle to support the calories needed for maintenance once I get where I want to be.

[1MOREMOD]

I'm curious what rudi looks like after all this. I picture a formerly obese dude with flaps of skin hanging off. Just never seen the lose 70lbs before I build muscle thing in action.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I'm curious what rudi looks like after all this. I picture a formerly obese dude with flaps of skin hanging off. Just never seen the lose 70lbs before I build muscle thing in action.

I've seen pics....looks like a leaner version of Jason Statham. He should be proud of where he's at. 6 months of adding some more muscle, he's going to look like a beast!

It's crazy. No matter how many times I bulk up, I'm always told that it looks like I'm getting bigger when I'm cutting. So he's in a good place right now!

[UncleWede]

I really think it would be better for me to fast noon-6am, but while I can skip breakfast, it's socially unacceptable to skip dinner

Friday I fasted until noon, then had a candy bar and blood sugar was too high to eat dinner before my soccer game. Worst game of the season. Saturday about 9 I was just dying so macked some Honey Nut Cheerios

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I do somewhat of intermittent fasting. I tend to stick with the 16/8 method, but due to my schedule and when I go to the gym, the only calories consumed in the evening come in the form of a protein shake post-work workout with about 5mg of creatine added. I loosely stick to this eating plan. Some weeks, I'm on it daily and stay within 15-50 calories +/- of my 500 kcal/day deficit. Some weeks, it's impossible to stick to as I work in an office where lunch is catered several times a month and I have a girlfriend that likes to cook for me. I'm not going to be an asshole and not eat what people cook for me, so some days it works; some days it doesn't.

I also pay crazy attention to the number of calories I take in, in a day, as well as my macros. From November 10th of last year, I've lost 71 pounds and somewhere around 13-14% body fat.

I heard that this "unpredictable" fasting is actually better.
If you stick to a very predictable routine, your body will just adapt to it. That's the plateau that folks mention. It's the same logic why you switch workout routines at the gym.

[MPBK]

I don't want to lose weight. Don't know if I have high metabolism, but I don't gain weight easily. I just need to lower my blood sugar.
Can I skip the keto diet thing (not crazy about eating fat), and just eat a low carb diet and intermediate fast?
My concern is that, since I need to eat the same amount of food to maintain my weight, if I fast, I'll just end up eating more at dinner, and that will spike the insulin. What do y'all do?

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by MPBK

I don't want to lose weight. Don't know if I have high metabolism, but I don't gain weight easily. I just need to lower my blood sugar.
Can I skip the keto diet thing (not crazy about eating fat), and just eat a low carb diet and intermediate fast?
My concern is that, since I need to eat the same amount of food to maintain my weight, if I fast, I'll just end up eating more at dinner, and that will spike the insulin. What do y'all do?

All right....my inner nerd is about to show...so sorry for the long post. But I have studied this stuff for a long time, and you can find all this on PubMed as well. I always tell people to keep it simple. Eat a low/lower carb diet, don't overeat, plan your meals around your exercise.

I think you will be fine if you are not already a diabetic. But if you have concerns about it....I would typically avoid IM. If you do IM....during periods of fasting, your body will release glucagon which promotes insulin resistance (study cited below) and that is what you are trying to avoid. In people with normal insulin sensitivity, IM doesn't affect you as much and you get away with it.

I have my dad (who is a diabetic) on a normal diet that is about 40% carbs. It's not the amount of carbs, but how it impacts your blood glucose. Eat more carbs with a lower glycemic index, and I guarantee you will see you A1C level drop over the long haul. Our biggest breakthrough with him was finding out how much food he needed to maintain his weight, but to even out his body's response to glucose. Once he stopped overeating, less insulin was released. Insulin among other things is a "storage hormone".

But it's only manipulated best if you have a high level of sensitivity (low insulin resistance) as your body has what is called a "P" ratio...or partitioning ratio. This ratio can be skewed by a lot of different things. Caloric intake being one of them. I have bulked in the past only using the lowest GI carbs I could...and still found my A1C elevated. However I have cut as well and done so on more carbs than while bulking, and find my A1C level lower.

My biggest concern with Keto (And I have done it in the past) is the amount of fats you have to consume to hit your daily totals. It's too easy to eat fats that aren't healthy for you. Plus in the absence of sugar, your body will start to breakdown muscle to an extent and convert it to sugar through a process called gluconeogenesis. That's why you see a lot of weight lifters that do keto taking in more protein than they need to. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing...as dietary protein consumption increases serum creatinine levels....and that can impair the functions of the kidneys if it goes on for too long.

Another thing you could consider is getting 80% of your daily carb intake in around your workout and the 2 meals after it. Since I workout in the morning, the 2-3 meals I have after that contain carbs, and then I gradually taper them down throughout the day until my last 1-2 meals at night hardly have any carbs in them. Think of your next meal as being what fuels your body for the next 2-3 hours.

Hyperinsulinemia is an adaptive mechanism that enables the maintenance of normoglycemia in the presence of insulin resistance. We assessed whether glucagon is also involved in the adaptation to insulin resistance. A total of 1,437 individuals underwent an oral glucose tolerance test with measurements of circulating glucose, insulin, and glucagon concentrations at 0, 30 and 120 min. Early glucagon suppression was defined as suppression in the period from 0 to 30 min, and late glucagon suppression as 30 to 120 min after glucose intake. Insulin sensitivity was estimated by the validated insulin sensitivity index. Individuals with screen-detected diabetes had 30% higher fasting glucagon levels and diminished early glucagon suppression, but greater late glucagon suppression when compared with individuals with normal glucose tolerance (P ≤ 0.014). Higher insulin resistance was associated with higher fasting glucagon levels, less early glucagon suppression, and greater late glucagon suppression (P < 0.001). The relationship between insulin sensitivity and fasting glucagon concentrations was nonlinear (P < 0.001). In conclusion, increased fasting glucagon levels and delayed glucagon suppression, together with increased circulating insulin levels, develop in parallel with insulin resistance. Therefore, glucose maintenance during insulin resistance may depend not only on hyperinsulinemia but also on the ability to suppress glucagon early after glucose intake.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by MPBK

I heard that this "unpredictable" fasting is actually better.
If you stick to a very predictable routine, your body will just adapt to it. That's the plateau that folks mention. It's the same logic why you switch workout routines at the gym.

I've been doing some research in whatever "free time" I've had the past few days. I really wish I had started my entire journey a little differently, I'm sure I would look way different than I do right now. I should have cut calories gradually and lifted more weight while doing cardio, but not nearly as much cardio as I was doing. At this point, I don't feel like I'm losing "weight" which is good as that isn't the goal any longer. Now I'm trying to swap body fat for muscle, long road ahead of me for sure, but I feel the end result (there will never actually be an end to it though) will be worth the effort.

I did some reading yesterday on people "hitting a wall" with intermittent fasting and stating they ate at maintenance for a week or two and started over to get past the plateau. The past few weeks my eating habits have been all over the place so it's kinda screwy at the moment. I can see a change in the reduction of what little bit of belly fat that I have left as well as new muscle gains, it's just such a slow process. I'll keep at the rate that I'm on for caloric intake for a couple more weeks, then slowly start increasing calories over an 8 week period then see where I'm at.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I've been doing some research in whatever "free time" I've had the past few days. I really wish I had started my entire journey a little differently, I'm sure I would look way different than I do right now. I should have cut calories gradually and lifted more weight while doing cardio, but not nearly as much cardio as I was doing. At this point, I don't feel like I'm losing "weight" which is good as that isn't the goal any longer. Now I'm trying to swap body fat for muscle, long road ahead of me for sure, but I feel the end result (there will never actually be an end to it though) will be worth the effort.

I did some reading yesterday on people "hitting a wall" with intermittent fasting and stating they ate at maintenance for a week or two and started over to get past the plateau. The past few weeks my eating habits have been all over the place so it's kinda screwy at the moment. I can see a change in the reduction of what little bit of belly fat that I have left as well as new muscle gains, it's just such a slow process. I'll keep at the rate that I'm on for caloric intake for a couple more weeks, then slowly start increasing calories over an 8 week period then see where I'm at.

As long as you understand that part all is good. No point in looking back at what you've already done. The weight you lost is very impressive and you should be proud regardless. Just keep working man. I think I've mentioned this but I tend to avoid the fasting because my goals are different like you had mentioned. You're getting the methodolgy behind building muscle and that's what is important. You need to bump the calories to build, 8 weeks is a good amount of time and you'll definitely grow. Then afterwards bring it down and you'll be surprised with how you look. I'm sure you've been talking to the doctor, Rmtt, so you should be good to go man!

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by JP10

As long as you understand that part all is good. No point in looking back at what you've already done. The weight you lost is very impressive and you should be proud regardless. Just keep working man. I think I've mentioned this but I tend to avoid the fasting because my goals are different like you had mentioned. You're getting the methodolgy behind building muscle and that's what is important. You need to bump the calories to build, 8 weeks is a good amount of time and you'll definitely grow. Then afterwards bring it down and you'll be surprised with how you look. I'm sure you've been talking to the doctor, Rmtt, so you should be good to go man!

Appreciate your advice man! It's funny that I've scoured the internet, watched hours of youtube videos, listened to do this and don't that, then don't do that, do this; take these suppliments, don't take those supplements, take these supplements to the point where I can see how and why people give up. But I have learned more here, aside from paying attention to how my body responds to the various stimuli I have subjected it to. You and Rmtt have been a huge help!

Although I'm still keeping careful track of every calorie that I eat, I've shifted my focus off dropping body fat percentage to just grinding at the gym. I started a new method this week, that I'm really enjoying. 4 sets of ten on each group that I work that day. The next time I work that group 4 sets of 11, next time 4 sets of 12, then increase weight and start back at 4 of ten....and so on and so forth. I've got to get my progressive overload going. This is going to be my focus for the next couple of months with slowly increasing calories. Come February or March I'll cut for a few weeks and hopefully the results will be somewhere close to what I want. Then I'll reformulate the game plan and start again. Pumped about the next few months.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

All right....my inner nerd is about to show...so sorry for the long post. But I have studied this stuff for a long time, and you can find all this on PubMed as well. I always tell people to keep it simple. Eat a low/lower carb diet, don't overeat, plan your meals around your exercise.

I think you will be fine if you are not already a diabetic. But if you have concerns about it....I would typically avoid IM. If you do IM....during periods of fasting, your body will release glucagon which promotes insulin resistance (study cited below) and that is what you are trying to avoid. In people with normal insulin sensitivity, IM doesn't affect you as much and you get away with it.

I have my dad (who is a diabetic) on a normal diet that is about 40% carbs. It's not the amount of carbs, but how it impacts your blood glucose. Eat more carbs with a lower glycemic index, and I guarantee you will see you A1C level drop over the long haul. Our biggest breakthrough with him was finding out how much food he needed to maintain his weight, but to even out his body's response to glucose. Once he stopped overeating, less insulin was released. Insulin among other things is a "storage hormone".

But it's only manipulated best if you have a high level of sensitivity (low insulin resistance) as your body has what is called a "P" ratio...or partitioning ratio. This ratio can be skewed by a lot of different things. Caloric intake being one of them. I have bulked in the past only using the lowest GI carbs I could...and still found my A1C elevated. However I have cut as well and done so on more carbs than while bulking, and find my A1C level lower.

My biggest concern with Keto (And I have done it in the past) is the amount of fats you have to consume to hit your daily totals. It's too easy to eat fats that aren't healthy for you. Plus in the absence of sugar, your body will start to breakdown muscle to an extent and convert it to sugar through a process called gluconeogenesis. That's why you see a lot of weight lifters that do keto taking in more protein than they need to. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing...as dietary protein consumption increases serum creatinine levels....and that can impair the functions of the kidneys if it goes on for too long.

Another thing you could consider is getting 80% of your daily carb intake in around your workout and the 2 meals after it. Since I workout in the morning, the 2-3 meals I have after that contain carbs, and then I gradually taper them down throughout the day until my last 1-2 meals at night hardly have any carbs in them. Think of your next meal as being what fuels your body for the next 2-3 hours.

Hyperinsulinemia is an adaptive mechanism that enables the maintenance of normoglycemia in the presence of insulin resistance. We assessed whether glucagon is also involved in the adaptation to insulin resistance. A total of 1,437 individuals underwent an oral glucose tolerance test with measurements of circulating glucose, insulin, and glucagon concentrations at 0, 30 and 120 min. Early glucagon suppression was defined as suppression in the period from 0 to 30 min, and late glucagon suppression as 30 to 120 min after glucose intake. Insulin sensitivity was estimated by the validated insulin sensitivity index. Individuals with screen-detected diabetes had 30% higher fasting glucagon levels and diminished early glucagon suppression, but greater late glucagon suppression when compared with individuals with normal glucose tolerance (P ≤ 0.014). Higher insulin resistance was associated with higher fasting glucagon levels, less early glucagon suppression, and greater late glucagon suppression (P < 0.001). The relationship between insulin sensitivity and fasting glucagon concentrations was nonlinear (P < 0.001). In conclusion, increased fasting glucagon levels and delayed glucagon suppression, together with increased circulating insulin levels, develop in parallel with insulin resistance. Therefore, glucose maintenance during insulin resistance may depend not only on hyperinsulinemia but also on the ability to suppress glucagon early after glucose intake.

Thanks man.
Like I said, my goal is not to lose weight, just lower blood sugar level.
I started eating very low carb (not zero because I cheat here and there) and over 2 weeks I lost 8lb. This without even trying, just cut the carbs and sugar.
I think I'll skip the IF thing. Just eat low carbs, as you suggested.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by MPBK

Thanks man.
Like I said, my goal is not to lose weight, just lower blood sugar level.
I started eating very low carb (not zero because I cheat here and there) and over 2 weeks I lost 8lb. This without even trying, just cut the carbs and sugar.
I think I'll skip the IF thing. Just eat low carbs, as you suggested.

No problem. Everything in moderation. Sugar isn't necessarily bad.....but in excess amounts it's downright evil!

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

Appreciate your advice man! It's funny that I've scoured the internet, watched hours of youtube videos, listened to do this and don't that, then don't do that, do this; take these suppliments, don't take those supplements, take these supplements to the point where I can see how and why people give up. But I have learned more here, aside from paying attention to how my body responds to the various stimuli I have subjected it to. You and Rmtt have been a huge help!

Although I'm still keeping careful track of every calorie that I eat, I've shifted my focus off dropping body fat percentage to just grinding at the gym. I started a new method this week, that I'm really enjoying. 4 sets of ten on each group that I work that day. The next time I work that group 4 sets of 11, next time 4 sets of 12, then increase weight and start back at 4 of ten....and so on and so forth. I've got to get my progressive overload going. This is going to be my focus for the next couple of months with slowly increasing calories. Come February or March I'll cut for a few weeks and hopefully the results will be somewhere close to what I want. Then I'll reformulate the game plan and start again. Pumped about the next few months.

You got this man. You've done it long enough that you know what works for your body. Just keep in mind that building muscle is the most important. Focus on that and even if you find yourself astray later from taking in too many calories (we all do)...the more muscle you are carrying...the easier it is to recover from it.

It's funny when I look back at all the time I have done this....but even an extra 100 calories a day is enough to swing momentum back in the right direction when you find yourself hitting a plateau.

The biggest thing is knowing if it is calories that is causing the plateau...or if it is something else such as recovery , CNS overload, etc.

That's why I always continue doing what I'm doing for at least a couple of weeks before I make a change to anything. Sometimes your body just needs a chance to adapt!

That could mean an extra day of rest, 30 seconds more time between sets, etc. But find one variable and focus on it. You got your diet down, so I think you are doing the right thing as focusing on progression in the gym. That's where it all starts!

[..Rush..]

I've lost 13 lbs so far doing this intermittent fasting.