F1 2024: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Aug 25)

[G30M]

Mazepin is back, court order causing Haas everything to be impounded in Netherlands

According to Haas, they have since paid the $9 million demanded by Uralkali

[G30M]

Also Logan is about to be sacked, with either Mick or Liam replacing for the rest of the season.

I'm picking Mick coz he has daddy's money ...

That could explain why Logan failed to get out of the burning car for a whole minute until he was told by both George Russell as he was driving past, as well as his team, to get out.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by dfox

Agreed with you on half of this, but Hamilton, who is struggling to beat Russel... The delusion is real. He was great. He's still good, but outperformed by the likes of Lando. Can't wait till next year when you get to watch Charles constantly out perform him.

Hamiliton is "struggling" to beat his team AND Russell. Ham was almost 2nd in the WDC last season despite having the 4th fastest car. Mercedes has repeatedly attempted to favor Russell this season, including Canada (giving Hamilton Hards when he requested scrubbed softs) or more recently when they denied his request for a 1 stop but then allowed GR to take that strategy and then didn't even tell him that he wasn't getting his place back until 4 laps were left in the race.

Ham is head and shoulders above this grid. If Max were in his situation, he would have rage quit and/or killed someone.

[lens]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

None of this has been true except when he has the fastest car by a significant margin. The RB is at basically a "0" setup and was/is nearly on par with the McLaren. Yet despite this, Max hasn't won in 5-6 races.
I think Max is the 2nd or 3rd best driver on the grid, with Hamilton being the best by a significant margin and then Fernando and Max battling for a distant second.

Lando is a midfielder with a rocketship.

Remind me who currently holds the record for most wins in a row?

And who has the most poles in a row too?

For a driver who is supposed to be the best, they couldn't even hold those records.

[lens]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I'm pretty sure , Lando ran with 'all the latest McLaren upgrades and Piastri not yet..
I think Piastri will get the latest McLaren upgrades next weekend at Monza , and that's bad news for MAX and the Red Bull WCC .
If Lando and Piastri can finish in front of MAX ,then the deed is done ...
And I wouldn't count on Checo (as usual)

The clock is ticking for the Red Bull Team (!)

Redbull has always delivered when pressure is on them, 2022 Ferrari we're dominating until TD after summer break and then RBR swung a 50 point deficit around.

Mclaren may have weak tracks ahead, and I think it's going to be singapore.

Historically, every team that were dominating, struggled in Singapore.

Mercedes, RBR, Ferrari, all when dominant during the year, showed up to Singapore and their cars were terrible there in qualifying.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by lens

Remind me who currently holds the record for most wins in a row?

And who has the most poles in a row too?

For a driver who is supposed to be the best, they couldn't even hold those records.

The guy who was winning with a car 50 seconds clear of the next guy. Lando is very mediocre, and he DESTROYED Max by 20+ seconds with time to spare.

Max is a good driver, he's just not as good as Lewis. Max still has the second fastest car and he hasn't won in 5 races. In that same time, Mercedes being the 3/4 car has seen Lewis win twice.

Lewis isn't supposed to be anything - He IS the best. He beat the reigning world champion (who beat the 7 time WDC Schumacher) in his rookie season.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I'm pretty sure , Lando ran with 'all the latest McLaren upgrades and Piastri not yet..
I think Piastri will get the latest McLaren upgrades next weekend at Monza , and that's bad news for MAX and the Red Bull WCC .
If Lando and Piastri can finish in front of MAX ,then the deed is done ...

Yeah I also think Lando drove with more upgrades than Oscar. In past races the McLaren had a fair bit of trouble passing cars because of dirty air, and Oscar still had that now, trailing LEC laps on end, but Lando could fairly easy pass Max, so it seems that McLaren also tackled that problem now.
Indeed when we're gonna see McLaren's on 1-2 finishes, the gap with Max will grow much faster, and he will loose the WDC, if RB doesn't come with some meaningful upgrades.
Now they did an 'Aston Martin', going back to specs of earlier this year, so that means they're pretty desparate and no real upgrades have been found yet.

Regarding the McLaren 1-2 finishes, I wonder how often we're gonna see team order for PIA to let NOR pass. Now that the WDC is clearly within reach, I think McLaren will realise that those order will become necessary.
Compared to the WCC, the WDC is the big prize, also for the sponsors.

Nobody cares about the WCC in that regard. Look at '21, MERC still got the WCC but no one talks about that. So not much worth for the sponsors. The team gets maybe 10 million extra prizemoney (pocketmoney for them as it's money outside the budgetcap), but that's it. And they loose development time, so there's that too.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by lens

Mclaren may have weak tracks ahead, and I think it's going to be singapore.

Maybe. But I don't think RB is gonna be dominant in Singapore. I think it's either gonna be MERC or Ferrari.
Still if NOR is gonna finish lower there (say behind 2 mercs) but still just in front of VER, the points difference is likely gonna be less, so better for VER.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by G30M

I'm picking Mick coz he has daddy's money ...

And he has that famous name.
However, I rate LAW higher. Mick never convinced me to be a supertalent like his dad was.
And Mick now sits of course in the MERC ecosystem. Toto is shareholder in Williams.

[lens]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The guy who was winning with a car 50 seconds clear of the next guy. Lando is very mediocre, and he DESTROYED Max by 20+ seconds with time to spare.

Max is a good driver, he's just not as good as Lewis. Max still has the second fastest car and he hasn't won in 5 races. In that same time, Mercedes being the 3/4 car has seen Lewis win twice.

Lewis isn't supposed to be anything - He IS the best. He beat the reigning world champion (who beat the 7 time WDC Schumacher) in his rookie season.

Max was running a floor from Bahrain which was 0.2sec slower in race pace.

Redbull is figuring out where they went wrong to go from there.


Plus Mercedes won once based on max taking a engine penalty, and the other time was strategy.

Not to mention the DSQ in spa.

[lens]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Maybe. But I don't think RB is gonna be dominant in Singapore. I think it's either gonna be MERC or Ferrari.
Still if NOR is gonna finish lower there (say behind 2 mercs) but still just in front of VER, the points difference is likely gonna be less, so better for VER.

It depends, as I said before, every team that was dominant has an issue at that track.

Redbull won back in 2022, Ferrari last year.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yeah I also think Lando drove with more upgrades than Oscar. In past races the McLaren had a fair bit of trouble passing cars because of dirty air, and Oscar still had that now, trailing LEC laps on end, but Lando could fairly easy pass Max, so it seems that McLaren also tackled that problem now.
Indeed when we're gonna see McLaren's on 1-2 finishes, the gap with Max will grow much faster, and he will loose the WDC, if RB doesn't come with some meaningful upgrades.
Now they did an 'Aston Martin', going back to specs of earlier this year, so that means they're pretty desparate and no real upgrades have been found yet.

Regarding the McLaren 1-2 finishes, I wonder how often we're gonna see team order for PIA to let NOR pass. Now that the WDC is clearly within reach, I think McLaren will realise that those order will become necessary.
Compared to the WCC, the WDC is the big prize, also for the sponsors.

Nobody cares about the WCC in that regard. Look at '21, MERC still got the WCC but no one talks about that. So not much worth for the sponsors. The team gets maybe 10 million extra prizemoney (pocketmoney for them as it's money outside the budgetcap), but that's it. And they loose development time, so there's that too.

Max was running more downforce than everyone else, hence why lando was passing him with ease.

RBR said they had upgrades in the works, and they'll revert to anyone spec in monza. It's mostly straight lines and high speed turns with 2 slow corners or so, so I think maybe Mclaren draggyness might be an issue.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by lens

Max was running a floor from Bahrain which was 0.2sec slower in race pace.

Redbull is figuring out where they went wrong to go from there.


Plus Mercedes won once based on max taking a engine penalty, and the other time was strategy.

Not to mention the DSQ in spa.

So Lewis and Rus are better drivers by taking a substantially slower car than RB to the podium.
It's sad that the "Best driver" can't win without having a significant car advantage.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by G30M

Mazepin is back, court order causing Haas everything to be impounded in Netherlands

The impound has been lifted earlier today. Haas has paid the 9million.

From what I understood it was difficult to pay that amount of money to a Russian company because of the various boycots.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The impound has been lifted earlier today. Haas has paid the 9million.

From what I understood it was difficult to pay that amount of money to a Russian company because of the various boycots.

With all of the sanctions in place, it's amazing that they were able to make the transfer at all.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So Lewis and Rus are better drivers by taking a substantially slower car than RB to the podium.
It's sad that the "Best driver" can't win without having a significant car advantage.

So it's all the car when other people are winning, but when Hamilton is winning, it's pure driver skill.

mkay.

[CMW33]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Compared to the WCC, the WDC is the big prize, also for the sponsors.

Nobody cares about the WCC in that regard. Look at '21, MERC still got the WCC but no one talks about that. So not much worth for the sponsors. The team gets maybe 10 million extra prizemoney (pocketmoney for them as it's money outside the budgetcap), but that's it. And they loose development time, so there's that too.

Err, nobody talks about the 2021 constructors' title because of Masi's misconduct in Abu Dhabi. Not to reopen that can of worms and invite trolls, but it is a huge factor.

The prize money awarded for the winning Constructor is actually huge, something like ~$150 million. So yeah, it's technically true it's $10 million over 2nd place but it sort of obscures a broader truth. The WCC definitely matters a lot!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by dfox

So it's all the car when other people are winning, but when Hamilton is winning, it's pure driver skill.

mkay.

That's literally the entire forum's stance on Max. They literally call it the "Max Factor"

Like Max was not a WDC runner up in his rookie season - he wasn't even a winner until 21 when RB poached all Mercedes technical staff and allowed him to run 20 seconds ahead of the Mercedes (which was already matched a season before with Ferrari)

I think Max is a very good driver, but I KNOW Lewis is exceptional. There is simply no excuse that can be given why Max has been irrelevant in the last 5 races because he doesn't have the outright fastest car unless he's not the guy you think he is.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by dfox

So it's all the car when other people are winning, but when Hamilton is winning, it's pure driver skill.

mkay.

We know it's the opposite as the data shows it with undisputed evidence. Max was able to win more in way worse cars than Ham was in and even during the time they have had great cars Max's stats are overwhelmingly better (and has only has 3 good car seasons of this whereas Ham has had at least 12). If you also take into consideration the fact that only MB had fast cars capable of winning for 8 years with no budget cap and between 2022 and now has been the single most competitive 3 years F1 has ever had with limitations on testing and budgets, as well as the most difficult F1 cars to drive in history, it stacks in Max's favor to an exponential degree.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by dfox

So it's all the car when other people are winning, but when Hamilton is winning, it's pure driver skill.

mkay.

You do understand that he’s trolling all the VER fans and he doesn’t really believe what he says right? He’s literally using the same arguments and situations VER fans use but replacing Max with HAM?

[CMW33]

Lewis vs. Max is like Kobe v. LeBron. It doesn't have to be one or the other. They can both be great. They both ARE great. Lewis, Max, Senna, Prost, Fangio, Vettel, Schumacher, Lauda... they're all legends in their own right.

A lot of this Lewis vs. Max debate is honestly just veiled personal dislike of the driver or something they did or something they said.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by lens

Remind me who currently holds the record for most wins in a row?

And who has the most poles in a row too?

For a driver who is supposed to be the best, they couldn't even hold those records.

He wont answer because he knows Max is 10X the driver mediocre Ham is. Max made a 7X WDC guy look flat out unskilled when he owned him in Abu Dhabi and in the entire 2021 season despite having a slower car.

It is crazy how the RB was super slow at Zandvoort yet Max destroyed one of the faster Mclaren cars by good measure and Per was nowhere to be seen. The Max factor is certainly a real thing. No one on the grid could have put the RBR in 2nd place as Max did.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by lens

Redbull is figuring out where they went wrong to go from there.
.

i don't quite understand.

there was an entire season where Perez in his glory days would qualify 14th and get to 2nd by mid race, for an entire season he could do that.

I was expecting the same this year but not this year it seems.