Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Meanwhile back in blighty, we have a problem with a mini ster, all sixty inches of him, apparently he's 'committed' through his steamed up glasses.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/2391...over-chargers/

Who could've predicted this?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Can you imagine pulling into a charging station where some of the chargers aren't working and there's a few cars ahead of you so you're looking at hours before you can get back on the road?
The other thing that occurs to me is that as the charging network expands there is going to be more chargers in sketchy areas, I don't like the idea of sitting next to my car or in my car in some back lot for an hour waiting to get enough charge to get back on the road. Great opportunity for criminals to take advantage.

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Wow, who could imagine that hanging out at a charging station could make you more susceptible to being a victim of crime?
According to an early 2022 Consumer Reports nationally representative survey of over 8,000 U.S. adults, of those who indicated charging considerations would hold them back from purchasing an EV, women were twice as likely as men to cite ‘concern about safety when I charge at a public charging station.’
Some of the most common places for EV charging today also happen to be the top locations in the U.S. for violent crimes, defined as homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and property crime (e.g., arson, burglary, larceny-theft and motor vehicle theft).
Charger security should be as much of a priority for the EV charging industry as reliability and interoperability. People shouldn’t feel like they need to own a handgun to safely operate an electric vehicle.
https://electricvehiclelove.com/2022...ern-for-women/

Imagine, with a battery almost depleted, being guided by SATNAV or some charger app to some sketchy area and subsequently encountering a gang of neighborhood hoodlums flocking the charger once you started charging, requiring you - as a sitting duck - to cough up cash or some valuable as their "local tax" or "protection money" to use "their" charger and to avoid your tires getting deflated or slashed.

Not a lot of options available except for to cave, or to call the cops (won't be "appreciated" by the gang) or to flee the area with what's left of battery power and call a flatbed truck.

[M3WC]

They have figured out dc fast charging cables have a lot of copper in them.

[KRS_SN]

What to make of this news item

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/m...-b2409616.html

Scientists say they have discovered the largest lithium deposit in the world inside an extinct volcano in the United States, capable of meeting global battery demand for decades.

Volcanologists and geologists reported evidence of the McDermitt caldera on the border of Nevada and Oregon containing up to 120 million tonnes of lithium, holding the potential to disrupt the price and supply dynamics of lithium globally.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M3WC

They have figured out dc fast charging cables have a lot of copper in them.

Yup. I managed part of a nationwide critical infrastructure network that used aught-gauge pure copper grounding cables. We had at least 10 a year stolen. Happens all the time.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

What to make of this news item

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/m...-b2409616.html

Scientists say they have discovered the largest lithium deposit in the world inside an extinct volcano in the United States, capable of meeting global battery demand for decades.

Volcanologists and geologists reported evidence of the McDermitt caldera on the border of Nevada and Oregon containing up to 120 million tonnes of lithium, holding the potential to disrupt the price and supply dynamics of lithium globally.

Bet we'll find out some Chinese Oligarch already owns the land.

[XutvJet]

I envision a new teenager dare game will become who can unplug the most EVs and run like hell.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Bet we'll find out some Chinese Oligarch already owns the land.

What I find strange is that this isn't even news, it's old, from 2015 or older...


The Thacker Pass lithium deposit, located within the caldera, is a prospect that in 2017 was said to be the most significant lithium-clay resource in the U.S..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDermitt_Caldera

And the USGS paper on this site:

https://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/1802/k/pp1802k.pdf

The deposit is being developed
for production, but lithium production has not yet begun (Western Lithium Corp., 2015).

Reminds me of all the other "any minute now" inventions, discoveries, and breakthroughs that will change my live over the last 50 years. So I called 2017, it said "any minute now..."

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

What I find strange is that this isn't even news, it's old, from 2017...


The Thacker Pass lithium deposit, located within the caldera, is a prospect that in 2017 was said to be the most significant lithium-clay resource in the U.S..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDermitt_Caldera

Reminds me of all the other "any minute now" inventions, discoveries, and breakthroughs that will change my live over the last 50 years. So I called 2017, it said "any minute now..."

Interesting so why is it in a news article from today from 'the independent' which suggests impartiality

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Interesting so why is it in a news article from today from 'the independent' which suggests impartiality

I want to believe it's not sensationalism, to capitalize on current buzz words, but I can't find any rational reason to believe it's not.

I remember when when I was a kid it was determined that there is 20,000,000 tons of gold in sea water. While true, what good does it do for us? Makes for an interesting news article, but that's about it.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

What to make of this news item

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/m...-b2409616.html

Scientists say they have discovered the largest lithium deposit in the world inside an extinct volcano in the United States, capable of meeting global battery demand for decades.

Volcanologists and geologists reported evidence of the McDermitt caldera on the border of Nevada and Oregon containing up to 120 million tonnes of lithium, holding the potential to disrupt the price and supply dynamics of lithium globally.

Apparently large portion of it is on Native American burial ground.

[x622]

Hi guys! Time to barge in the ol' circlejerk again.

I turo'd a Plaid X for a few days (4) to compare it to my X5MC and incoming Cayenne Turbo GT since it's so damn stinky cheap now that I have to pay attention to it now and seriously consider it.

If I had a place in my house to charge it every night and I didn't have to go to say, Austin to San Antonio every day, and it's intra-city or short range, it makes sense. Driving this thing outside of city limits in the sticks? You're outta your damn mind. It drained over 10% of a charge overnight just sitting in a garage (climatization set to 100 degrees). Across just over 600 miles of driving, I had to charge it no less than 7 times, sometimes for a top up because I wouldn't make it to my destination, or additional miles because the maps are lies about what chargers are what.

There was a huge Bucees in Bastrop that had chargers and that makes sense, but most of these other chargers are in random places with no facilities or services. You can contrast this with the gas station which has evolved to be a place that you not only fill up your car, but you can also use the restroom, grab snacks and drinks, shower etc during your stop. These chargers? Not so much. There usually is nothing around them (other than the aforementioned bucees one). The people who are charging just sit in their car on their phone or nap. Some get out and talk to each other. I'd just uber to wherever I wanted (in a gas car) and then back when it was done an hour later. Have to piss really bad? Better hope you can find a spot in the bushes somewhere and hope nobody calls the cops on you.

If anything I'd state the pro-ev guys talking about how great (or ok) the infrastructure is, you're making such an egregious misrepresentation of the state it's at that it's just dishonesty. As others have noted, these are only viable if you're a homeowner with a place to charge, or if your work has chargers. Even then, if they're level 1's or twos, you're still gonna have to go to the supercharger station.


The real question is how do we get superchargers to be as ubiquitous as gas stations? How much money are we going to throw to the utilities? Are people going to be OK with their rates doubling because of the sheer amount of infrastructure truly necessary to facilitate this extreme energy demand?

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by x622

Are people going to be OK with their rates doubling because of the sheer amount of infrastructure truly necessary to facilitate this extreme energy demand?

They are because they truly believe that will be "someone else's" problem to pay for it. Since it hasn't cost them anything yet, they believe it never will. They lack the understanding that capacity to deliver and actual demand are not the same thing.

Go look at your charge scenario: 1-home, 2-work, and 3-public access. If you need a 40 amp level 2 supply to charge your car, infrastructure needs to be built to supply 40 amps in at least 3 locations, not one. If you drive a lot and have 2 EV's, you may need 2 @ 40 amp breakers at home.

You might get to share that supply capacity in the public and work locations, but it's still a resource that needs to be dedicated to the purpose and accounted for in the capacity calculations. Adding a 100KWH battery car to the infrastructure equation requires more than 100KWH capacity in the system as a whole to be build and dedicated in system load calculations.

Imagine if every house in your neighborhood needed to add a 40 amp breaker, and every business had to add 1 40 amp breaker for every 3 employees, what that does to the electrical grid and distribution calculations...

Even when not used, it needs to be accounted for in the load calculations for design, and accommodated in actual supply capacity. And these are not transient loads, they draw load steadily for lengthy periods in many cases, so you have to derate your design supply calculations.

The laws of physics don't care about going green.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

The laws of physics don't care about going green.

Lots of good points but let me rewrite the last line:

Going Green doesn't care about the laws of physics.
Sheep don't know
Wolfs don't want to know.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

What to make of this news item

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/m...-b2409616.html

Scientists say they have discovered the largest lithium deposit in the world inside an extinct volcano in the United States, capable of meeting global battery demand for decades.

Volcanologists and geologists reported evidence of the McDermitt caldera on the border of Nevada and Oregon containing up to 120 million tonnes of lithium, holding the potential to disrupt the price and supply dynamics of lithium globally.

It looks very promising. In post #4066 one of the forums top members also mentioned this finding.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

It looks very promising. In post #4066 one of the forums top members also mentioned this finding.

Several issues:
Almost all Caldera's are Nationals or State Parks. If I'm reading the map right, in this case the McDermitt Caldera is part of the Oregon Desert Land Trust. So this fight will be a hoot to watch. I love liberal on liberal cat fights.

Second is the transportation and processing of battery-grade lithium ore.
"Processes treating lithium-bearing hard rocks normally involve first thermal treatment of these rocks at high temperature, followed by water leaching to release lithium values into solution. When salt lake or salar brines are used to recover lithium, solar evaporation is commonly used to concentrate lithium and precipitate salts of major elements such as K, Na, Mg, Ca, etc. Leach liquors or concentrated brines are then further treated using precipitation, ion exchange, etc., to remove residual contaminants. Carbonation using soda ash or carbon dioxide is preferred to precipitate lithium carbonate as the final product whereas lithium hydroxide is frequently recovered via electrodialysis and crystallization. These products usually are of battery grade (99.5% purity) and could be further processed to produce high purity compounds (>99.9%) by redissolution, ion exchange, and reprecipitation steps."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...28014172000037

Who here thinks this process is environmentally friendly?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Several issues:
Almost all Caldera's are Nationals or State Parks. If I'm reading the map right, in this case the McDermitt Caldera is part of the Oregon Desert Land Trust. So this fight will be a hoot to watch. I love liberal on liberal cat fights.

Second is the transportation and processing of battery-grade lithium ore.
"Processes treating lithium-bearing hard rocks normally involve first thermal treatment of these rocks at high temperature, followed by water leaching to release lithium values into solution. When salt lake or salar brines are used to recover lithium, solar evaporation is commonly used to concentrate lithium and precipitate salts of major elements such as K, Na, Mg, Ca, etc. Leach liquors or concentrated brines are then further treated using precipitation, ion exchange, etc., to remove residual contaminants. Carbonation using soda ash or carbon dioxide is preferred to precipitate lithium carbonate as the final product whereas lithium hydroxide is frequently recovered via electrodialysis and crystallization. These products usually are of battery grade (99.5% purity) and could be further processed to produce high purity compounds (>99.9%) by redissolution, ion exchange, and reprecipitation steps."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...28014172000037

Who here thinks this process is environmentally friendly?

The exciting thing is that the US has some very bright people that can innovate and mine the lithium appropriately.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by gblansten

The exciting thing is that the US has some very bright people that can innovate and mine the lithium appropriately.

So you admit it’s not at that level yet, but hope it will be?


Im not sure how much evidence people need to see that electric cars aren’t green, and aren’t “good” for the environment. They are and always have been about control

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

The exciting thing is that the US has some very bright people that can innovate and mine the lithium appropriately.

Lithium mines produce Lithium ore and that ore must be processed. Note last post and source.

Some pictures of the process.
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/lithium-mining

Lithium mining makes Anwar look like a green peace meeting.
The same folks that had a hissy fit over the Alaskan Pipe line will be chomping at the bit to remove millions of tons of overburden, draw millions of gallons of water and flood thousands of acres of conservation land.
The same government that just cancelled oil and gas leases in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (Anwar) will be all on board to authorize massive open pit lithium mining and processing.

You are being played. The smell of Grift fills the air. There is NOTHING here that is planet saving.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Lithium mines produce Lithium ore and that ore must be processed. Note last post and source.

Some pictures of the process.
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/lithium-mining

Lithium mining makes Anwar look like a green peace meeting.
The same folks that had a hissy fit over the Alaskan Pipe line will be chomping at the bit to remove millions of tons of overburden, draw millions of gallons of water and flood thousands of acres of conservation land.
The same government that just cancelled oil and gas leases in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (Anwar) will be all on board to authorize massive open pit lithium mining and processing.

You are being played. The smell of Grift fills the air. There is NOTHING here that is planet saving.

We will just have to disagree on this. There are many bright minds working on better mining practices. Looking forward to the future.

Life is process. LA used to be filled with smog from cars. We could have banned them or accepted the smog. Instead innovation brought us catalytic converters.

[Car-Addicted]

Lets not forget Cobalt mining

Cobalt Mining: The Dark Side of the Renewable Energy Transition
The world’s largest cobalt supplier is the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), where it is estimated that up to a fifth of the production is produced through artisanal miners. Cobalt mining, however, is associated with dangerous workers’ exploitation and other serious environmental and social issues.

Artisanal miners hand-dig higher-grade ores than those extracted through industrial or mechanised production means. But there are well-reported problems with artisanal mining, both in terms of the social and environmental cost.

The small mines in which artisanal miners operate are often dangerous and polluting. The mining and refining processes are often labour intensive and associated with a variety of health problems as a result of accidents, overexertion, exposure to toxic chemicals and gases, and violence. And these miners, known locally as creseurs, are so economically reliant on this informal economy that these dangerous conditions cannot afford full consideration.

The environmental costs of cobalt mining activities are also substantial. Southern regions of the DRC are not only home to cobalt and copper, but also large amounts of uranium. In mining regions, scientists have made note of high radioactivity levels. In addition, mineral mining, similar to other industrial mining efforts, often produces pollution that leaches into neighbouring rivers and water sources. Dust from pulverised rock is known to cause breathing problems for local communities as well.

Some Images of Cobalt mining:
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/c...icense=rf%2Crm

https://earth.org/cobalt-mining/

The Green cult is doing way more environmental damage than they are willing to acknowledge. The green Grift grows.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So you admit it’s not at that level yet, but hope it will be?


Im not sure how much evidence people need to see that electric cars aren’t green, and aren’t “good” for the environment. They are and always have been about control

I think we can do a better job mining than South America. I plan to outsource the worry over this to others.

There has never been a better time to be alive in human history.

But no one is happy.