F1 2022: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Sep 4)

[MontyB1]

Yikes so many odd comments in this place its hard to know where to start.

Russell did nothing wrong, in fact for me his quick thinking kept Merc on the podium. There was NO WAY that they would have been able to defend against Max let along Leclerc on the mediums until the end of the race. Hamilton had to try to stay ahead but we all know it was futile, if he would have pitted he would have just watched Max drive into the distance.

The AT issue that caused the VSC, it was weird nobody can say it wasn't but was it fixed no don't be daft. It did mean that there was a nice easy pitstop for Max and IF IF IF it didn't happen and there wasn't the Botas incident then could Merc have won, maybe but still doubtful.

As for Lewis, I see no difference in what he did and vented to ANY other driver. Max has done it before, Leclerc you name it, they want to win, they all think they are the best and when they don't get what they want or need they rant. Anyone that has driven a race car would know that the adrenalin is flowing and afterwards they sometimes regret what they say. In the interviews with Lewis afterwards he was fine, understood what had happened and that was that no issue at all.

As for who is fastest between Lewis and Russell, well well many said Russell was rubbish and he would be destroyed by Lewis, he is good, really good, Max / Lewis good, too early to tell. Hamilton was the test driver early in the season trying all the odd parts whilst Russell was doing all the base work, that's easy to see and explains much of the gap. Post Baku they have both been very close as they aren't all over the place on setup trying to stop the bouncing.

Ferrari, OMG they could be winning now but how they make soooo many mistakes, its pits, its strategy its setup they are a mess. They used to have more money than ANY other team but still haven't performed to their best in a post Ross Brawn, Michael Schmacher would, they have been close, they have been faster, they could have won again before but haven't.

Max has won, he deserves it and his talent is incredible as is the rest of the team. Next season will be super interesting that other teams are likely to close up I'd hope and with luck we get some new drivers.

Colten Herta seems to have a contract with AT if they can get him a super licence, Gasly off to Alpine and Piastri to come in to sit alongside McLaren there is lots to look forward too.

Will Danny R be on the grid, I'm really not so sure, he has lost his mojo, wants lots of money and I think he might be left in the cold unless Haas or Williams can do a cheap deal for him.

On to Monza, should be interesting to see how Ferrari mess up next and see what RB do to win, it won't be a Merc track and I expect Alpine in the mix again.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

The AT issue that caused the VSC, it was weird nobody can say it wasn't but was it fixed no don't be daft. It did mean that there was a nice easy pitstop for Max and IF IF IF it didn't happen and there wasn't the Botas incident then could Merc have won, maybe but still doubtful.

At the time of the Tsunoda incident (lap44), Max had a 16 second lead on HAM and a 19 sec. lead on Russel.
By coming in at that time without vsc situation, he would have come out in front of RUS, and 2sec behind HAM, but would have been on tyres that are 15 laps fresher (HAM pitted in lap29 when VER was hauling him in with considerable speed on his fresher mediums, and MERC obviously didn't want VER passing HAM on camera, so they called him in)
My guess is that it would have been no big deal to overtake HAM at that point.
He had no trouble overtaking HAM when he pitted for fresh tyres after the Bottas SC and the difference in laps driven on tyres was just as big back then.(VER overtook HAM in lap 60; SC started in lap57)
So indeed doubtful HAM ever having a real chance of beating VER. But he sure could have consolidated his 2nd place by getting fresh tyres during the BOT SC situation.

And in the end all the if if scenario's don't matter. What happens at the finishline is what matters.
Adapting your strategy according to what happens on the track is therefore very important. This made the difference between Russel and Hammy yesterday.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

And in the end all the if if scenario's don't matter. What happens at the finishline is what matters.
Adapting your strategy according to what happens on the track is therefore very important. This made the difference between Russel and Hammy yesterday.

The zillion possibilities: the race is over - can't rewrite history. Teams and drivers got to act when it matters: during the race. Dynamic decision-making. Lucky moments, missed chances, outcome of choices: learn from it for future races.

And all those endless discussions about yellow flags and safety car situations: incidents on track are part of motorsport - always been, always will be. Same goes for change of track conditions (dry/damp/wet). Teams and drivers are supposed to be prepared for those challenges and think/act quickly, it's part of their job.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

After HAM's disrespectful jibe at him, Max the gentleman gave the perfect response.
Link,
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/90...prix-red-bull/

Lewis inability to compliment Max is actually a compliment.

Both raised by father, funded early for F1.

Lewis arrived in 2007 and Max in 2015, both were considered very aggressive drivers.

Lewis has 14 consecutive seasons with at least one Grand Prix win, while Max has 7 seasons.

Both understand the frustration of fighting a dominate car.

Lewis endured through the RBR dominance 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 with Vettel. Max endured the Merc dominance 2015-2020/2021 with Lewis(Rosberg). Both had to drive on the limit to battle for wins.

Lewis used a dominate car 2014-2020 and strong car in 2008(possibly less) to collect 7 WDC.

During that period, Vettel’s performance decline after driving a dominate RBR was apparent.

Hamilton may be experiencing the same Vettel decline and can’t believe it is happening to him now.

I appreciate Lewis for his contribution to racing (especially his Mclaren years). With Vettel retiring, the grid needs to fill that gap and maybe Lewis is right person for it. He can focus on the things important to him and remain part of the circus.

Nobody beats aging with the exception of Fernando who battles with 12 year olds at his go kart track every weekend. Maybe since Fernando and Lewis are friends now, Lewis will be invited to Nando’s Kart Track, however nobody beats Nando except Nando around Nando’s Kart Track.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Attachment 2974936

Attachment 2974937

Artemis, good effort but it will not help.

I’d recommend the ignore button but you cannot. Prisoner dilemma.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Pretty sad hateful comments on Hannah Schmitz....

https://firstsportz.com/f1-news-hann...ls-strategist/

Even Hammy condemned those comments. Despite Toto wanting a full investigation on Tsunoda-gate as he doesnt trust this...Maybe this feeds the comments of those 'fans'....

Social media is a plague.

[NYG]

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by NYG

Attachment 2975186

Hmmmm...well you only have to go back a couple of seasons & to read all the crazy conspiracy theories that were abounding this very forum, which were being posted by the Max 'fans'...just saying

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Yikes so many odd comments in this place its hard to know where to start.

Russell did nothing wrong, in fact for me his quick thinking kept Merc on the podium. There was NO WAY that they would have been able to defend against Max let along Leclerc on the mediums until the end of the race. Hamilton had to try to stay ahead but we all know it was futile, if he would have pitted he would have just watched Max drive into the distance.

The AT issue that caused the VSC, it was weird nobody can say it wasn't but was it fixed no don't be daft. It did mean that there was a nice easy pitstop for Max and IF IF IF it didn't happen and there wasn't the Botas incident then could Merc have won, maybe but still doubtful.

As for Lewis, I see no difference in what he did and vented to ANY other driver. Max has done it before, Leclerc you name it, they want to win, they all think they are the best and when they don't get what they want or need they rant. Anyone that has driven a race car would know that the adrenalin is flowing and afterwards they sometimes regret what they say. In the interviews with Lewis afterwards he was fine, understood what had happened and that was that no issue at all.

As for who is fastest between Lewis and Russell, well well many said Russell was rubbish and he would be destroyed by Lewis, he is good, really good, Max / Lewis good, too early to tell. Hamilton was the test driver early in the season trying all the odd parts whilst Russell was doing all the base work, that's easy to see and explains much of the gap. Post Baku they have both been very close as they aren't all over the place on setup trying to stop the bouncing.

Ferrari, OMG they could be winning now but how they make soooo many mistakes, its pits, its strategy its setup they are a mess. They used to have more money than ANY other team but still haven't performed to their best in a post Ross Brawn, Michael Schmacher would, they have been close, they have been faster, they could have won again before but haven't.

Max has won, he deserves it and his talent is incredible as is the rest of the team. Next season will be super interesting that other teams are likely to close up I'd hope and with luck we get some new drivers.

Colten Herta seems to have a contract with AT if they can get him a super licence, Gasly off to Alpine and Piastri to come in to sit alongside McLaren there is lots to look forward too.

Will Danny R be on the grid, I'm really not so sure, he has lost his mojo, wants lots of money and I think he might be left in the cold unless Haas or Williams can do a cheap deal for him.

On to Monza, should be interesting to see how Ferrari mess up next and see what RB do to win, it won't be a Merc track and I expect Alpine in the mix again.

*****

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by NYG

Attachment 2975186

Should go back and re-quote what some were saying about LH over the last few seasons. Embarrassing drivel and often pure jealousy.

Maybe LH fans should start spouting things about rocket engines and cheating and it’s just the car not the driver.. isn’t that the way Max fans do it.

I’d like to think LH fans have more class to be honest but either way the vitriol either way is childish and myopic. If people can’t see the quality I the car and the driver regardless of the team this isn’t the sport for you IMO.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Should go back and re-quote what some were saying about LH over the last few seasons. Embarrassing drivel and often pure jealousy.

Maybe LH fans should start spouting things about rocket engines and cheating and it’s just the car not the driver.. isn’t that the way Max fans do it.

I’d like to think LH fans have more class to be honest but either way the vitriol either way is childish and myopic. If people can’t see the quality I the car and the driver regardless of the team this isn’t the sport for you IMO.

Wasn't me.

It's all in good fun in any event.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Should go back and re-quote what some were saying about LH over the last few seasons. Embarrassing drivel and often pure jealousy.

Maybe LH fans should start spouting things about rocket engines and cheating and it’s just the car not the driver.. isn’t that the way Max fans do it.

I’d like to think LH fans have more class to be honest but either way the vitriol either way is childish and myopic. If people can’t see the quality I the car and the driver regardless of the team this isn’t the sport for you IMO.

Lewy fans end up being the sexists.

[Artemis]

Toto Wolff's take on the pit stop strategy adopted by Mercedes:

“First of all, we are the trash bin for the driver! It’s highly emotional, you are that close, racing for the win and then you are being eaten up. So it’s clear that every emotion comes out and as a driver you are in the cockpit, you are alone, you don’t see what’s happening,” explained Wolff.
“We discussed in the moment, are we taking risks for the race win? Yes, we’re taking risks. And he had a tyre that was five laps old, the medium – holding position was the right thing to do. At the end it didn’t work out for him but I’d rather take the risk to win the race for Lewis rather than finish second and third.”
Wolff reasoned that Mercedes might have been “screwed” regardless of the call they made.
“First of all, Lewis was ahead, so you always have a bit of a problem with the call. You can do two things: you can either pit Lewis, lose track position against Verstappen or leave George out – screwed; you can pit both – screwed. So it was worth taking the risk.”
“I think the Red Bull has so much straight-line speed that [with everyone] on the same tyre out there, you’re not winning.”
(source: here)

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Maybe LH fans should start spouting things about rocket engines and cheating ..

You already have toto and hammy himself for that .
Toto knows no bounds in searching for ways how Ferrari and RB are supposed to be cheating, and even gets the FIA to change the rules to suit his way, more than once
But Horner keeps laughing, saying thats not it what gives them the edge, and indeed the next race at spa, RB completely dominates the field.

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Should go back and re-quote what some were saying about LH over the last few seasons.

Yeah why not, we can do the same about what hammyfans said about Max/RB

I’d like to think LH fans have more class to be honest

Yes, we've seen that; LH fans outing that they wished Max had died in certain crashes, and outing some quite personal insults in de from of graphical pornographical representation linking to certain member names....
That is indeed really classy
Hammy fans vs Max fans is indeed a heated discussion, but overstepping boundries in this way (which even results in a member getting a permban for gods sake....) seems to be reserved for the hammy fansbase, not the Max fanbase.

and it’s just the car not the driver..

That would contradict what some hammyfans have been touting here for years. Then again, go ahead if you want to couple inconsistency as another trait to hammyfans....
I think how Max recently explained this is a smart and correct way. Might be an eyeopener for some hammyfans that roamed here in the past...

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Toto Wolff's take on the pit stop strategy adopted by Mercedes:

“First of all, we are the trash bin for the driver! It’s highly emotional, you are that close, racing for the win and then you are being eaten up. So it’s clear that every emotion comes out and as a driver you are in the cockpit, you are alone, you don’t see what’s happening,” explained Wolff.
“We discussed in the moment, are we taking risks for the race win? Yes, we’re taking risks. And he had a tyre that was five laps old, the medium – holding position was the right thing to do. At the end it didn’t work out for him but I’d rather take the risk to win the race for Lewis rather than finish second and third.”
Wolff reasoned that Mercedes might have been “screwed” regardless of the call they made.
“First of all, Lewis was ahead, so you always have a bit of a problem with the call. You can do two things: you can either pit Lewis, lose track position against Verstappen or leave George out – screwed; you can pit both – screwed. So it was worth taking the risk.”
“I think the Red Bull has so much straight-line speed that [with everyone] on the same tyre out there, you’re not winning.”
(source: here)

Funny that Toto descirbes it in this way.
With the safetycar situation, Lewis wasn't ahead at all, Max was.
Max went in immedaitely for softs, even before the bulk of the field came in.
That was a brilliant move; yes he gave up his lead but ensured that he got fresh tyres and was 2nd behind persons that didn't came in (Hammy), and wouldn't get caught up inbetween all the other cars coming in with all the riscs (like SAI unsafe pit release).
And then he says: "At the end it didn’t work out for him but I’d rather take the risk to win the race for Lewis rather than finish second and third.”
And now they have 2nd and 4th.
VER coming in, giving up the lead for new fresh tyres was clearly the best move. Horner also explained that. That was a well thought of and deliberate strategical move. They knew the MERCS wouldnt be a challenge if Max switched to his fresh set of reds that he saved (that is also strategical brilliance in itself; saving a set of reds)
Toto says that it's a highly emotional moment, but that's why you have strategists. They are not emotional, they base their decisions on objective input. This is why a driver (and team boss) have to be able to trust their strategists, and only option for another way if something objective is happening on the track, like tyres not feeling well or so.
This is exactly the reason why MERC has been strategically weak, not only this year but also previous years. (for instance hammy all by himself at the restart of the 2021 hungarian GP; a massive strategical failure)

[DrFerry]

The drama continues.. Seems some people have reasons to question a few of the race events as well as safety car deployments.. At this point most of it seems like conjecture and conspiracy.
.

[///M Power-Belgium]

*****

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

*****

Max left him like he was standing still!
Crazy that the RB wasnt even supposed to be suited for this track but Max still left Rus in his dust at the end finishing about 5 second ahead after just 10 laps and Ham was almost 14 seconds behind. Even before that he was cruising...
I think no matter what, Max was winning this race because he is clearly in a class of his own and only continues to prove that each race.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Max left him like he was standing still!
Crazy that the RB wasnt even supposed to be suited for this track but Max still left Rus in his dust at the end finishing about 5 second ahead after just 10 laps and Ham was almost 14 seconds behind. Even before that he was cruising...
I think no matter what, Max was winning this race because he is clearly in a class of his own and only continues to prove that each race.

I'm beginning to accept its Max...RedBull should be 1-2ing every race like scHAM and ROSturd did for years. PER simply isn't pulling his share of the weight.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

after just 10 laps and Ham was almost 14 seconds behind.

This exactly shows how important pitting for fresh tyres was.

People who think that if RUS also stayed out and fence off Max so that HAM could win the race....
Max would have just eaten up RUS like he did HAM pretty much straight away after the sc ended, and then would have overtaken HAM the next lap (or even the same lap).
The differences are that big between 14 lap old yellows and fresh reds. About 1,5sec/lap
And of course LEC would have overtaken them both too. So RUS saved valuable points in his battle for 2nd place in the WDC (that spot is still very much open)

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

This exactly shows how important pitting for fresh tyres was.

People who think that if RUS also stayed out and fence off Max so that HAM could win the race....
Max would have just eaten up RUS like he did HAM pretty much straight away after the sc ended, and then would have overtaken HAM the next lap (or even the same lap).
The differences are that big between 14 lap old yellows and fresh reds. About 1,5sec/lap
And of course LEC would have overtaken them both too. So RUS saved valuable points in his battle for 2nd place in the WDC (that spot is still very much open)

Agreed! Max would have dusted Rus and then very quickly dust Ham as well. He might have done both on the straight the way he was looking but more likley within the next lap.
If Rus hadnt pitted Lec would have certainly passed him as well. He got a bit lucky there that Lec didnt get closer than he did as it stands.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I'm beginning to accept its Max...RedBull should be 1-2ing every race like scHAM and ROSturd did for years. PER simply isn't pulling his share of the weight.

I certainly think we are seeing a talent that has not been present since the likes of Senna and Schumacher - he is that good and still improving. Per def needs to step up a bit and would like to see him finish second in the WDC.