Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

"The vehicle was salvaged due to flooding in Florida and was idle when it burst into flames"

This raises several questions:
Are all cars with minor flood damage forced into a salvage title? With the batteries making up the belly pan of a EV it will not take much water to submerged the battery and not damage the car. What is to keep someone from selling a flood damaged EV rather than to accepting a insurance settlement?
The used EV market is already depressed without the possibility of damaged EV's showing up.

If I ever get a Tesla, my vanity plate will be:

EV-BBQ

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If I ever get a Tesla

[fcman]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Bmw has a roaring approved used program.
It makes a lot of money this way. Probably more than on selling new cars. So they have an incentive for making their vehicles last. Tesla for eg doesn't have thos...it doesn't even have a extended warranty program for its cars (at least in the UK).

It's impossible to draw any inferences from this:

There are only ~2% of Teslas out of warranty - maybe they feel there isnt a market need

The powertrain warranty is 8yr/120k - Still longer than many CPO programs anyway (assuming an average mile/yr of 13,500 per FHWA)

Maybe they have done the analysis and used tesla buyers are not concerned about the warranty?

Maybe BMW has done the same analysis and thinks BMW buyers would not buy used without a warranty?

ETC..

Also does the CPO warranty from BMW even come from BMW AG itself or is it an offering from the respective business units BMW NA/BMW UK/etc.?

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by fcman

It's impossible to draw any inferences from this:

There are only ~2% of Teslas out of warranty - maybe they feel there isnt a market need

The powertrain warranty is 8yr/120k - Still longer than many CPO programs anyway (assuming an average mile/yr of 13,500 per FHWA)

Maybe they have done the analysis and used tesla buyers are not concerned about the warranty?

Maybe BMW has done the same analysis and thinks BMW buyers would not buy used without a warranty?

ETC..

Also does the CPO warranty from BMW even come from BMW AG itself or is it an offering from the respective business units BMW NA/BMW UK/etc.?

I'm not sure many buyers especially of used ev's would want to own one out of warranty without an extension. These giga pressed unimodular items probably need a half of a car replaced if there is a problem in a tiny part.
The CPO warranty for UK is underwritten by Allianz which is a giant and extendable indefinitely and in the event of a problem you deal with bmw directly not the insurer.
AFAIK no such provisions for Tesla bar a years limited warranty of 10k miles if bought cpo. That's it.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I'm not sure many buyers especially of used ev's would want to own one out of warranty without an extension. These giga pressed unimodular items probably need a half of a car replaced if there is a problem in a tiny part.
...
AFAIK no such provisions for Tesla bar a years limited warranty of 10k miles if bought cpo. That's it.

Yeah it looks like the way Tesla's used warranty works is they will give you bumper to bumper for 1yr/10k miles (not great mileage) from delivery date or at the end of basic car warranty if still active and then you receive the remaining powertrain warranty as well. I couldnt find any cars for sale on tesla's site that are our of powertrain warranty though, so either there just aren't many out there (like I said only 2%) or they just dont take used cars that are out of warranty, definitely possible.

The CPO warranty fir UK is underwritten by Allianz and extendable indefinitely.m and in the event of a problem you deal with bmw directly not the insurer.

Interesting, makes sense. Do you deal with BMW AG though or BMW UK? I found the CPO documentation from BMW NL and looks all claims have to go through them, which tells me BMW AG is not involved.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by fcman

Interesting, makes sense. Do you deal with BMW AG though or BMW UK? I found the CPO documentation from BMW NL and looks all claims have to go through them, which tells me BMW AG is not involved.

I couldn't possibly answer tbh. I've never needed to claim. I think you turrn up at a dealership pay £150 diagnosis fee and the rest is handled between the dealer and bmw/allianz

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Just to be accurate, the USA Tesla battery and drive unit warranty is 8 years or 150,000 miles (I think Tesla increased from 120K). It also states battery degradation of 30% is considered still in service. So considering the usable battery capacity is 80%, losing 30% of the total battery is a significant range reduction. On top of that, a degraded battery also doesn't charge as fast as a non-degraded battery. And I'd expect a degraded battery is more affected by cold winter driving.

So it looks like an impressive warranty (all EV are federally mandated to have 8 years 100,000 miles), in reality considering the range loss and recovery rate loss at 70% total capacity, I'd think owners would not be happy.

In layman's terms... "that would suck".

For sure, I can't say that I've ever heard of someone seeing that much degradation in an otherwise healthy battery though, at least on the newer cars. Generally they seem to fail pretty abruptly if there is an issue.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by fcman

For sure, I can't say that I've ever heard of someone seeing that much degradation in an otherwise healthy battery though, at least on the newer cars. Generally they seem to fail pretty abruptly if there is an issue.

Oddly I just had this conversation with my detailer today. His family owns a Model Y Performance, I believe a 2022. They are very careful with charging, usually to 80% to 90% and they have seen their total mileage drop from 280, to 260... 240 and now it sits around 220.

Tesla does have a battery warranty but Tesla (or Musk in particular), exaggerates Tesla's EV range. In fact, they are being sued for it right now for that. I have not seen anyone say the Model S actually reaches 400 claimed miles. Some testers say the Model S can barely 300 let alone 400.

[Llarry]

Interesting article on lithium-ion batteries and temperature.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/resear...eries-and-heat

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Oddly I just had this conversation with my detailer today. His family owns a Model Y Performance, I believe a 2022. They are very careful with charging, usually to 80% to 90% and they have seen their total mileage drop from 280, to 260... 240 and now it sits around 220.

Tesla does have a battery warranty but Tesla (or Musk in particular), exaggerates Tesla's EV range. In fact, they are being sued for it right now for that. I have not seen anyone say the Model S actually reaches 400 claimed miles. Some testers say the Model S can barely 300 let alone 400.

It definitely possible there is an issue with his battery, but the range is also based on driving habits, just like range in an ICE car, if you have a heavy foot or drive on the highway a lot it could affect the range. I have a 2021 with around 20k miles and my range has dropped from 330 to 325. From what I’ve seen, the expected degradation seems to be around 5% the first year and 1% per year after

But yeah the claimed mileage thing is weird. EVs do not like highway speeds at all and will rip through charge much faster than they will around town. From my experience at 35-45mph the estimate is fairly accurate but at highway speeds it’s definitely overestimated. I don’t do a lot of highway driving though.

[fcman]

In other news, anyone check out this video? The way the McMurtry F's off at the 8:40 mark is completely ridiculous, it almost looks fake. I dont care if you hate EVs or not, if you say you wouldn't want a chance to drive that thing, or the Rimac, you're lying

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by fcman

In other news, anyone check out this video? The way the McMurtry F's off at the 8:40 mark is completely ridiculous, it almost looks fake. I dont care if you hate EVs or not, if you say you wouldn't want a chance to drive that thing, or the Rimac, you're lying

I am just going to add this point, I do not think anyone here really 'hates' EV,
EV hater are the lifted diesel truck broskis who intentionally unplug EVs or intentionally deface, ruin EV chargers, or roll coal in front of EV just for shiz and giggles. I'd like to think majority of the people actively posting here have a little more intelligence than that

Most here who do tend to argue against EVs are not haters, I'd say are are skeptical, maybe it doesn't fit their needs, mostly do not agree with how world governments are now actively using tax payer dollars to force the market with zero planning, little consultation, and even understanding that many may not find EV suitable to their needs or meet their particular budget. This is not done for environmental improvements as they claim it is, it is done for political points. To a lesser extent it just forces consumerism as usual.

EVs are just objects, to 'hate' an object you'd have to live a pretty sad life.

Yes, I'd love to have a go at the McMurtry or the Rimac just so i can piss my pants in a car.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by kyriian

I am just going to add this point, I do not think anyone here really 'hates' EV

Just a bit of hyperbole, I wasn't calling anyone out. Just saying there's no enthusiast out there who could honestly say they would want to drive it (which is still hyperbole )

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

[eljay]

I drove an Ioniq 5 and Model 3 yesterday.
I love the exterior design of Ioniq 5, but both leave a lot to be desired for interior. And the build quality is pretty bad.
Tesla drove very nice and the weight of both was very obvious. The acceleration is very deceptive and quick. It was very much a Logitech experience in the driving department.
I can totally see the appeal of them for significant majority of consumers, many of whom don't even know what model of car they just drove to the grocery store.
Some day, I hope a nice 3-series Touring EV comes to market for a reasonable price and I'd take a look at it when it hit a used car market 8-10 years later.

I'm not against EVs, but the whole premise that this will save the planet is very strange to me. It's like all the magic pills to get in shape and lose weight in just two weeks.
The recipe to save polar bears is simple: consume less. Less oil AND lithium. As long as the energy demand goes up we're just hoping from source to source and destroying things along the way. BTW, I'm not an environmentalist. I just hope some common sense wins in the end.

[KRS_SN]

I'm not anti ev either. I own one. Despite this I know EV alone cannot do what the ICE does ie freedom to go anywhere anytime and anylong hence I've got this little fella to give company to the range limited EV to ensure my needs are met.

[GTF]

Can't wait to see the pressure applied in determining the cause of fire on car carriers. ("Can't PROVE fire was caused by EV")....Right. Figuring in a billion dollars total cost of losing each ship won't help the push to electric if costs are properly allocated.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I'm not anti ev either. I own one. Despite this I know EV alone cannot do what the ICE does ie freedom to go anywhere anytime and anylong hence I've got this little fella to give company to the range limited EV to ensure my needs are met.

Agreed, I think people have to look at their use case and determine if an EV only garage can meet their needs. That's why I have the M2 on the way to replace my Corvette, rather than an EV.

[eljay]

I would totally get an EV as second (um... third/fourth car) as my daily routine to for school drop-off is a very short distance and the ICE version barely warms up properly.
But the cost will need to be much lower for me to add one since I wouldn't sell my E91 for one. For example, e-Golf or i3 would be great. But used, they both cost too much.

If I had time, I would definitely get a cheap hatchback and do EV conversion for fun. But I don't have time, nor driveway space.
And I always wondered how does motor vehicle inspection work for EV converted cars around here.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by eljay

I would totally get an EV as second (um... third/fourth car) as my daily routine to for school drop-off is a very short distance and the ICE version barely warms up properly.
But the cost will need to be much lower for me to add one since I wouldn't sell my E91 for one. For example, e-Golf or i3 would be great. But used, they both cost too much.

Yeah we had a Jetta and the Corvette, and then had a baby so we picked up the Model Y and the Corvette became a weekend toy. Now I'm in the process of consolidating the Corvette and Jetta into the M2, since I dont really have the space for 3 cars.

The best part is you never jump in the car and think "dammit, I need to get gas today before/after school drop off." The car is just always ready to do exactly what you want without any extra stops

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by fcman

You made the claim, how you decide to provide supporting evidence or proof is up to you. Consumer surveys would be a great start though imo, though sampling BMW owners only would be a flawed methodology

Consumer Reports ok? BMW scores highest of brands that make the best car.

https://reprints.theygsgroup.com/cr/...WhatBrands.pdf

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Consumer Reports ok? BMW scores highest of brands that make the best car.

https://reprints.theygsgroup.com/cr/...WhatBrands.pdf

Oh boy not this again, these are not surveys about car makers’ reputation lol.