Women's congruence tests... and how to pass them?

[G30M]

going back to the first post

what's a congruence test?

[TheVazha]

Did they do it?

[chresto]

Mate you started this thread in February and now is June and there has been zero progress. You seem to go in circles. You have a limited lifespan and you have already wasted a 1/3 of a year in a hypothetical platonic relationship that does not seem to go anywhere. I suggested you the ultimate book to make you understand women and relationships and you don’t seem to get it at all unfortunately. Perhaps you need to read it again slowly. It says you better do it 10 times at least anyway and let the knowledge sink in but you seem very rigid and not willing to change. The best choices in life sometimes are hard and painful. In this particular case and based on what you have told us, you need to let this one go and both move on with your lives. There is no point continuing with this thread.

[D_o_S]

Thanks for all the input,

and to summarize, I DO think progress has been made - i.e. it has been smooth sailing with her for the past few months, this was just one event I thought was worth discussing...

And, what has changed was the fact that yes, I have stopped nitpicking and overanalyzing, but there is just the one thing I fear, and that is that I will wake up one day, not myself.

I.e. when she comments something, I can either:
a) be humorous about it and, ignore it = works myself into a state of "ignorance"
b) overthink it, which allows me to stay myself, sharp, alert and curious... but also in tension.

So, I dunno.

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

I.e. when she comments something, I can either:
a) be humorous about it and, ignore it = works myself into a state of "ignorance"
b) overthink it, which allows me to stay myself, sharp, alert and curious... but also in tension.

So, I dunno.

You "dunno" because none of those extreme points is any better then the other. The truth is in between.

"a)" is only appropriate when you do believe she said nonsense. Relying on this all the time is stupid and rude. Not funny.

"b)" is all right if you feel comfortable with it, just don't put it all on her - make a simple, constructive conclusion to convey. Show some respect, don't make it too much of a (annoying, confusing) burden for her.

It has just reminded me of the "Bedazzled" movie, this episode in particular (emotions rather than thoughts, but still the same):

.

[wren57]

OP, what level of physical engagement have you had with this woman?

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by wren57

OP, what level of physical engagement have you had with this woman?

Physical engagement? Can't even figure out how to walk at the same pace!!??

[wren57]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Physical engagement? Can't even figure out how to walk at the same pace!!??

[sygazelle]

What a toxic train wreck this thread has been. I'm good at being in a relationship but I never had much to say about giving other people advice.

So, OP, I'll give it a try based on my experience:

In high school and college I dated a few girls. It was all fine and fun but no spark for me. Then one day, I met a girl who change everything for me. I literally knew she was the one the moment we met! Never have we ever had to have a harsh conversation about speeding up or slowing down when we are walking together. We just hold hands and find the right pace for the two of us together. We've been happily married since 1972 with our 50th anniversary coming up in August.

So, my direct advice to you: Based on the stories you have written on this thread, this girl is not the one. You are NOT going to change who she is and she is NOT going to change who you are. You need to find someone who is in sync with you and then evolve together.

That's all I've got.

[danielgmanm6]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Hiya,

happy new year! Reaching out for some help to all you dating experts

I have been spending considerable time with a girl and I think we can say we both enjoy each other's presence. I certainly enjoy hers, from her wittiness and intellect to her looks... We are not intimate, so as below, all judgements of appearance are with clothes on.

I have been subjected to some congruence tests in the past, some I believe I handled well (with the types of "Uh-huh" responses and keeping my cool), but on New Year, I was faced with a test (? or so I believe) which got me thinking (I am an overthinker...)

Based on the fact that my responses seemed to be ignored and her opinions were repeatedly stated (while I stood behind mine) makes it seem like some sort of escalated congruence

Our phone conversation started something like this (m = me, h = her):
M: Hey, so how was your first day of new year? Any changes???
H: Naaah, it's all the same... I looked everywhere, and everything seems to be the same (joking voice) How about you?
M: Oh, dramatic changes! (sarcasm) So I got up early, just kidding... I got up as normal, did some exercise...
H: Hmmm, I'd like to ask you, you've been exercising a lot in the past year, but I don't see any changes. Do you see any changes? Like are you going to need to buy a bigger shirt? (Serious voice)
M: Well, actually, I haven't exercised in the past 4 months...
H: Yeah, but... [[[ my above comment was dismissed, as if it didn't matter... no interest as to why I haven't exercised (due to work), etc.]]] You know, I don't know how you exercise, but I mean, I can't see any changes on you. Can you see any changes?
M: Yeah, my shirt is tighter... around my belly [jokingly, but it's also true... she is convinced I have to GAIN mass, not be lean... whereas due to the fact that I have been sedentary, I would prefer to loose some weight, and then regain]... No, but really, I can feel more fitted in my arms, shoulders and torso
H: Yeah, but I can't see it. I mean, girls would digg you/digg men with broad shoulders. So have you gone up a shirt size? If you're still wearing the same shirt size, you're not growing...
M: No, shirt size is still the same...
H: Yeah, so you must not be exercising for growth (she knows I much prefer function/endurance rather than outright hypertrophy)... I mean, I'm sorry I'm so strict on you, but it's like if I told you "I'm exercising every day" and you saw nothing...
M: Yeah, well when I started out, I was lifting 60 kg, now I am lifting 100...
H: Yeah, I still can't see it. But anyway, if you want to have the body of a jogi, so be it...
M: Nah, I don't want to be a jogi... or Arnold Schwarzenneger, for that matter. I would much rather be like Bruce Lee...
H: That's a strange choice, I mean why would you choose world champion Arnold?
M: Cause I only go for the best...
H: Yeah... well... train however you want...
M: Yep, so after strength training, I got on the bike...
H: You see, you keep running to that bike!!! Cause you're good at it! Trying to find the easy way out (strict voice)
M: Actually, I ride my bike because I enjoy it.
H: Yeah, well it's not going to give you a hot body. I mean, a road cyclist body, what woman would lust after that...
M: Yeah, well give me a month to get into my exercise routine, and then I'll show you... And what about you, how was your day?
H: Yeah, I had a lazy day... Maybe you'd like to come over for tea tomorrow?
M: Sure, let me know... hey, and thank you for your honesty about the exercise thing!

Then some small talk and "over and out".

So, well, uh... what should I think of this? I see two levels:
- partnership/relationship level
- flirting level

On the level of a partnership, what I find bothersome:
- It is not a conversation, I do not get to present my view... i.e. she repeats "But I cannot see any change", "You're still wearing the same shirt size".
- On the level of a partnership, I do NOT want anyone to feel belittled, ridiculed, ashamed... So I find it difficult to navigate outside of the situation where she says "Can you see any change?" (I state "Yep, my shirt feels more fitted), and she just repeats "I cannot see any change." - I do not want to "shoot back" at her with a comment like "Well, I've been getting compliments" or whatever, because that makes her feel like the fact that she cannot see it is WRONG... I would rather say: Hey, look here... (Like if she says "my phone has no reception"... I'm not going to say "well mine does", but rather "let me take a look")
--- but, on the level of a partnership, her whole assessment of exercise effectiveness is just plain wrong, in my eyes. I mean, should I be going to the gym only to be measured by shirt size??? What about 1 rep maximum, number of repetitions, etc. I hinted at this, and it was ignored. In hindsight, I would have expanded this argument much more, but "in the heat of battle", I was so mesmerized by the fact that "she cannot SEE it"
- There is very little support of ME in this whole argument, and it would have been so easy to provide... I mean...: some concern over why I haven't been exercising (I know you've had a lot of work, but hey, it's new year, lets make the change!), some support regarding the fact that I am lifting heavier (Hey, good work! Keep that up and I'm sure I'll see the changes), the fact that I WANT to exercise and cycle (Wait, so you did your workout and then got on the bike? Good job!). Nada. Zero. Cycling sucks because you don't get a hot body. Weightlifting you're clearly doing wrong, because I cannot SEE it.

KEY QUESTION HERE: Do I go back and tell her: Look, I'm really glad we had that conversation about my training last time. It was open and honest and I thank you for that. However, it didn't feel very supportive to me. Maybe, next time you could... XYZ... and I believe that would leave me with a more energized mood to do better. I try to do the same for you and we can help each other reach our goals.

Do I open this, or not? If I do, to me, it seems like a responsible thing to do. On the other hand, it may seem like I was too touched by what was said. But, if I keep ignoring this... well, I don't want to be in a relationship with "ignorance" as one of its values.

On the level of flirting.. well... anything I ought to have done better? I mean, I don't want to be mean.... but the fact that she just kept repeating "I cannot see it" was provocative and could be misused in so many ways ("Well, others gave me compliments", "Maybe you ought to look a little better", "I'm not doing this for the looks"), same thing with "If you're not wearing a bigger shirt, then it's not working", yada yada yada...

Thoughts, tips, tricks?

Thank you!

IMO opinion stop being a overly sensitive. You come off like a weak, emotional male that no girl wants. This made my penis go back into my stomach. Cringe man. Can't believe I just read some of that lmaooo. She's going to start dating someone else. Save yourself the heartache.

[NYG]

My man....

Respect yourself - move on. Never allow anyone to talk to you like that.

[jmack]

Originally Posted by danielgmanm6

IMO opinion stop being a overly sensitive. You come off like a weak, emotional male that no girl wants. This made my penis go back into my stomach. Cringe man. Can't believe I just read some of that lmaooo. She's going to start dating someone else. Save yourself the heartache.

I doubt she considers herself even dating OP by their interactions.

[floridaorange]

OP how much adderall are you on?

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

......Next time it happens maybe you could ask her if she's being over emotional because she's on her period. Help her understand that logically speaking, women do tend to get a bit over emotional at that time. It's scientifically proven. But she may not be aware so you could help her see that and improve.

^^^ This is the answer OP - an end to all your troubles. And thanks to DETRoadster for what may be the best attempt at ending this painful thread (getting her to finally go off and kill him).

[Gossypiboma]

This thread is ridiculous. This is either the longest troll in history or the OP is on the spectrum. I favor the later.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Gossypiboma

This thread is ridiculous. This is either the longest troll in history or the OP is on the spectrum. I favor the later.

I've wondered that myself. The obsession over details, getting fixated on minutia, the inability to read social queues. It does add up.

[D_o_S]

As I have mentioned before, it bewilders me how a general question about an interaction between a man and a woman (often times) leads to "so, have you had sex?". As I have said in one of my posts before, I wasn't (or I am not aware of) asking for help in getting her into bed...

... I was asking for a perspective, a viewpoint on how to behave, on "what is normal", on diplomacy and candor, on how people ought to treat each other. And, in openness, yes, I am interested in her sexually, but it's not the ulterior motive. If it happens, great, if it doesn't it's not like I'll feel deprived of something I was righteous to have.

Some users have chimed in with valuable input - thanks for that, and so, I have given this "issue" some further thought.

It is clear that we are all bound by social constraints, by what society says is or isn't a relationship. By boxes. This "relationship" I describe here clearly does not fall into a box, a box called (and defined by society's standards) a relationship.

On the other hand, this "relationship" that I share with this woman has qualities that, in the average relationship or marriage, are often times not present. From what I have seen, these relationships are two people together for they are used to each other, they have children together, they are afraid to separate... all in all, they are not in a fulfilling relationship. And yes, people in these relationships have sex. And yes, people in these relationships mistreat each other, cheat on each other, sometimes are indifferent to each other. And yet, they say they love each other. Do they?

In "The subtle art of not giving a f**k", it is mentioned that Shakespear's Romeo and Juliet is, in fact, a comedy. I mean, isn't it absurd that two people so much in love kill themselves? Shouldn't love be about wanting the best for the other person, wanting to be the best version of yourself...? But, society has since then started interpreting the play as "deepest love" - look at them, they will even die for each other...

So, what is love? What is a relationship? It's about definitions, and boxes society has created for us.

And hence, what do I share with this woman? I share her ups, her downs, precious moments of intimacy - mental and physical. We talk together about things that stay between us, openly, because we know - we feel - we understand each other. She has brought some of the happiest moments to my life, given me feedback and constructive criticism, moved me on as a person... and I will always be thankful to her for that.

And, in all openness and honesty, I have also done things for her, things I do not do for "friends", because yes, she IS special to me. With her, I feel better than I feel alone. And yes, as others have suggested, I am a bit of a weirdo. I do not think that I am autistic, but I do try to live my life very rationally, to not give in to emotions, to always be constructive and move to the goal at hand - no matter if bullets are flying and people are dying.

And again, in all openness and honesty, I do sometimes go overboard for her. I want to see her happy, I want to see her smile. I do things extraordinary, and yes, I do get a feeling of fulfillment from my accomplishments, however minute they may be in the context of the universe. I want her to feel good with me.

I believe she does feel good, because it's hard to fathom - knowing her, her morals and standards - that she would spend as much time with someone who did not make her feel good. I mean, would you go out with someone 60 times, if they made you feel "ugh"? Would you go on holidays together, would you spend evenings together? If you were just using the other person, then surely, there are easier ways to achieve your goals than spending countless hours together?

And so on the one hand, I receive so much, in essence, happiness. But, I must also contemplate what I don't receive. Sex, clearly. As humans, we are sexual creatures and yes, it's not something I can go without. Not so much from the physical standpoint, I guess, but more so from the perspective of an emotional connection. But, there are much more "serious" things that I don't receive, which are gnawing at me.

Support is one of them. We are all brought up differently, I believe I was given a modest amount of support to be myself by my parents (less so by other people, but I never really cared that much tbh), but, on the other hand, I cannot remember being ridiculed (except one occasion) for my passions by my parents. She, on the other hand, through several statements and actions (or lack thereof) makes, I feel (yes, this is subjective), little effort to support me in anything. I have never heard "Hey, that's great!", "Hey, go and have fun and let me know how it was". When I am happy about something, she doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's a big deal to me, and I want to share it with her. No, she steps it down, says things like "Yeah, call me whenever." or "Come and share this or that sometime". And yes, she does ridicule my choices sometimes "Why would anyone want to do that?". "Why would anyone listen to that?". "I have friends and they are so and so [and you're not, so you're clearly wrong]". As I have mentioned in this thread, there have been several possibilities for her to extend a helping hand - and she volunteered nothing.

In a way, I have friends that have/would have given more. So, roles in a "relationship" - am I to be the man who can always take care of himself? A man who is reliant on himself, and has his woman to take care of?

On the other hand, I am used to offering help without being asked. Maybe... maybe she's the type of person that needs to be included. Maybe she needs me to say "Hey, can you help me with...". And, all in all, this pattern of me being self sustained is not a rare one, I have seen it replayed before me several times - where I am so much of a giver, and receive "nothing" in return.

And, I thought there would be more to it, but I am at a loss for thoughts. What else do I lack between us? I dunno, it all seem to come down to "support", to "being liked". I just don't feel that she feels that I am special to her. I have, to some extent, heard her talk behind my back, and she tells people how great I am... but not so to my face.

And where can I go from here? Firstly, I can give her some feedback, sure - not going back in history, but when a similar situation arises in the future, I'll say "Hey, could you help me with..." I haven't done this before because she has little time for herself, so to speak (busy with work), so I figured "it's not nice bothering her". And from there? I dunno.

And that's all in all what I am contemplating here, I guess.

[floridaorange]

My guy…. don't take this the wrong way… but, what in God's holy name are you blathering about?

How old are you and this girl? Is this your first real relationship?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

As I have mentioned before, it bewilders me how a general question about an interaction between a man and a woman (often times) leads to "so, have you had sex?". As I have said in one of my posts before, I wasn't (or I am not aware of) asking for help in getting her into bed...

... I was asking for a perspective, a viewpoint on how to behave, on "what is normal", on diplomacy and candor, on how people ought to treat each other. And, in openness, yes, I am interested in her sexually, but it's not the ulterior motive. If it happens, great, if it doesn't it's not like I'll feel deprived of something I was righteous to have.

Some users have chimed in with valuable input - thanks for that, and so, I have given this "issue" some further thought.

It is clear that we are all bound by social constraints, by what society says is or isn't a relationship. By boxes. This "relationship" I describe here clearly does not fall into a box, a box called (and defined by society's standards) a relationship.

On the other hand, this "relationship" that I share with this woman has qualities that, in the average relationship or marriage, are often times not present. From what I have seen, these relationships are two people together for they are used to each other, they have children together, they are afraid to separate... all in all, they are not in a fulfilling relationship. And yes, people in these relationships have sex. And yes, people in these relationships mistreat each other, cheat on each other, sometimes are indifferent to each other. And yet, they say they love each other. Do they?

In "The subtle art of not giving a f**k", it is mentioned that Shakespear's Romeo and Juliet is, in fact, a comedy. I mean, isn't it absurd that two people so much in love kill themselves? Shouldn't love be about wanting the best for the other person, wanting to be the best version of yourself...? But, society has since then started interpreting the play as "deepest love" - look at them, they will even die for each other...

So, what is love? What is a relationship? It's about definitions, and boxes society has created for us.

And hence, what do I share with this woman? I share her ups, her downs, precious moments of intimacy - mental and physical. We talk together about things that stay between us, openly, because we know - we feel - we understand each other. She has brought some of the happiest moments to my life, given me feedback and constructive criticism, moved me on as a person... and I will always be thankful to her for that.

And, in all openness and honesty, I have also done things for her, things I do not do for "friends", because yes, she IS special to me. With her, I feel better than I feel alone. And yes, as others have suggested, I am a bit of a weirdo. I do not think that I am autistic, but I do try to live my life very rationally, to not give in to emotions, to always be constructive and move to the goal at hand - no matter if bullets are flying and people are dying.

And again, in all openness and honesty, I do sometimes go overboard for her. I want to see her happy, I want to see her smile. I do things extraordinary, and yes, I do get a feeling of fulfillment from my accomplishments, however minute they may be in the context of the universe. I want her to feel good with me.

I believe she does feel good, because it's hard to fathom - knowing her, her morals and standards - that she would spend as much time with someone who did not make her feel good. I mean, would you go out with someone 60 times, if they made you feel "ugh"? Would you go on holidays together, would you spend evenings together? If you were just using the other person, then surely, there are easier ways to achieve your goals than spending countless hours together?

And so on the one hand, I receive so much, in essence, happiness. But, I must also contemplate what I don't receive. Sex, clearly. As humans, we are sexual creatures and yes, it's not something I can go without. Not so much from the physical standpoint, I guess, but more so from the perspective of an emotional connection. But, there are much more "serious" things that I don't receive, which are gnawing at me.

Support is one of them. We are all brought up differently, I believe I was given a modest amount of support to be myself by my parents (less so by other people, but I never really cared that much tbh), but, on the other hand, I cannot remember being ridiculed (except one occasion) for my passions by my parents. She, on the other hand, through several statements and actions (or lack thereof) makes, I feel (yes, this is subjective), little effort to support me in anything. I have never heard "Hey, that's great!", "Hey, go and have fun and let me know how it was". When I am happy about something, she doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's a big deal to me, and I want to share it with her. No, she steps it down, says things like "Yeah, call me whenever." or "Come and share this or that sometime". And yes, she does ridicule my choices sometimes "Why would anyone want to do that?". "Why would anyone listen to that?". "I have friends and they are so and so [and you're not, so you're clearly wrong]". As I have mentioned in this thread, there have been several possibilities for her to extend a helping hand - and she volunteered nothing.

In a way, I have friends that have/would have given more. So, roles in a "relationship" - am I to be the man who can always take care of himself? A man who is reliant on himself, and has his woman to take care of?

On the other hand, I am used to offering help without being asked. Maybe... maybe she's the type of person that needs to be included. Maybe she needs me to say "Hey, can you help me with...". And, all in all, this pattern of me being self sustained is not a rare one, I have seen it replayed before me several times - where I am so much of a giver, and receive "nothing" in return.

And, I thought there would be more to it, but I am at a loss for thoughts. What else do I lack between us? I dunno, it all seem to come down to "support", to "being liked". I just don't feel that she feels that I am special to her. I have, to some extent, heard her talk behind my back, and she tells people how great I am... but not so to my face.

And where can I go from here? Firstly, I can give her some feedback, sure - not going back in history, but when a similar situation arises in the future, I'll say "Hey, could you help me with..." I haven't done this before because she has little time for herself, so to speak (busy with work), so I figured "it's not nice bothering her". And from there? I dunno.

And that's all in all what I am contemplating here, I guess.

My mans is a cyborg.

[Darth One]

The gift that keeps on giving

[wtwo3]

can i get the TLDR for that last post?

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

can i get the TLDR for that last post?

I wouldn't even know how to summarize but essentially he thinks that we are trying to box his relationship into the social idea of what relationships are supposed to be. The things is this chick doesn't even ask him basic caring questions that a normal human in a relationship would. No one giving advice is trying to box anything in. It's a lost cause.

At least that's what I think I got out of it