The Airplane Thread

[charlie fairmont]

All shamelessly stolen. Apologies for any reposts

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

I have no idea if this picture is real or photoshopped, but I found it pretty cool nonetheless. Pictured are the XB-35, YB-49 and the B2.

Scale models on a countertop.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by charlie fairmont

All shamelessly stolen. Apologies for any reposts

I recall back in the day when the SR-71 flew over the Soviet Union with impunity. This pissed off the Ruskies no end. They tried hot-rodding a Mig-29 including milling the skins to lighten it. No go. The Mig couldn't fly fast enough, long enough to catch the SR-71.

[charlie fairmont]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I recall back in the day when the SR-71 flew over the Soviet Union with impunity. This pissed off the Ruskies no end. They tried hot-rodding a Mig-29 including milling the skins to lighten it. No go. The Mig couldn't fly fast enough, long enough to catch the SR-71.

Just such a supremely cool aircraft. Every story I hear about it is one of blatant badassery.

[ezaircon4jc]

I was pointing-out a SWA jet for another airline to follow and he said he saw an aircraft there, but it didn't look like SWA. Remembering the Sea World sponsorship deal with SWA I asked if the airplane looked like a whale. Excitedly he said "YEAH!" I said follow Shamu, cleared visual approach 24R. 'Twas the only time I had someone follow a whale.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I recall back in the day when the SR-71 flew over the Soviet Union with impunity. This pissed off the Ruskies no end. They tried hot-rodding a Mig-29 including milling the skins to lighten it. No go. The Mig couldn't fly fast enough, long enough to catch the SR-71.

It may be that you have some special background or knowledge of SR-71 ops, but in my 25 years in the intelligence field, I was not aware of any overflights of the USSR by the SR-71. It was DESIGNED to overfly the USSR, but I believe was never actually authorized to do so. It certainly did overflights of many sensitive areas, but operations targeting the Soviet Union were always peripheral with the SR-71 in international airspace to my knowledge.

[Jetmart]

RV-14

[Lady Jane]

Agusta Westland 609.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Agusta Westland 609.


Attachment 3057727

Very cool aircraft. The 609 must be a contender for the aircraft with the most protracted development history. Wiki says it is expected to enter service in 2023, twenty years after its first flight.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Very cool aircraft. The 609 must be a contender for the aircraft with the most protracted development history. Wiki says it is expected to enter service in 2023, twenty years after its first flight.

Tilt Rotors are very hard to certify apparently especially during the loss of one engine.

Another example for the military: Bell V-280 Valor.

[Llarry]

If the U.S. Army goes to a tiltrotor force (replacing the UH-60 Blackhawk), the Navy will probably be unable to piggyback off the Army's selection, as a Navy tiltrotor will be unable to fit in the hangars of Navy destroyers. The other problem is likely cost -- the cost of a tiltrotor force will be far more than that of a helo force. I wonder if the Army's selection of a tiltrotor will survive the budget process.

All that said, the tiltrotor has undisputed military advantages in speed and range. The U.S. Marine Corps seems to be largely immune to the normal bugetary pressures of the other U.S. military services, thus the MV-22 Osprey, as well as the UH-1Y and CH-53K helicopters, all of which are considerably more expensive than their Army counterparts. The Marines lead a charmed life...

[Llarry]

Speaking of rotary wing aircraft and budgets, every U.S. taxpayer should be incensed by the debacle that is the replacement of the fleet of U.S. presidential helicopters. By my reckoning, the total expended is about NINE BILLION dollars!

The sordid tale starts quite a few years ago when it was recognized that the VH-3 presidential helicopters needed replacement. There were studies and a competition, won by the Eurocopter EH101. The military started buying prototypes and the White House staff started loading up those helos with every imaginable bell and whistle. Predictably, the program cost ballooned to incredible numbers. The military ended up buying 9 prototypes/development aircraft, designated VH-71A, and the total program cost ended up at something like 4.4 billion before President Obama cried foul and the program was cancelled. The nine orphan helicopters were ultimately sold to Canada for use as spares for CH-149 Cormorant helicopters (for pennies on the dollar.) My suspicion is that the non-US origin of the aircraft played a role in the cancellation.

For the second try, the tale repeats itself: This time a modified Sikorsky S-92 was chosen and designated VH-92A. Prototypes and early production aircraft have flown and I expect that we will see this helicopter in service soon. The total program is for 23 helos at a cost of 4.7 billion. For those following the math, I figure 4.4 + 4.7 = 9.1 billion taxpayer dollars.

Unfortunately, this is not the end of the story. There are still two Boeing 747-800 aircraft undergoing years-long conversion to new Air Force One presidential aircraft. I can assure you that these airplanes will have every imaginable amenity. I don't have the heart fo investigate the current estimate of the program cost.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Llarry

It may be that you have some special background or knowledge of SR-71 ops, but in my 25 years in the intelligence field, I was not aware of any overflights of the USSR by the SR-71. It was DESIGNED to overfly the USSR, but I believe was never actually authorized to do so. It certainly did overflights of many sensitive areas, but operations targeting the Soviet Union were always peripheral with the SR-71 in international airspace to my knowledge.

You are correct. My bad. The SR-71 flew along the borders and I think with side-looking equipment. It was the U-2 that did overflights, until Powers got shot down.

Still, I recall the Russians tried intercept it with Mig-29's, but failed to catch it.

[hubbahubba]

This morning our local airport chapter of warbirds had a little event. Spent a few minutes poking around.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

My suspicion is that the non-US origin of the aircraft played a role in the cancellation.

You find out where the helicopter is built, and you'll find out which politician was lobbying.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

You find out where the helicopter is built, and you'll find out which politician was lobbying.

Eurocopter EH101: Italy and UK... Worse match ever possible.

[3798j]

December 17, 1903...

[Llarry]

The story on the Air Force One replacement is one of delays and cost overruns as well -- what a surprise!

Boeing was picked as the contractor in 2015 with the intent of buying three Boeing 747-800 aircraft to replace the two earlier 747s currently used. Boeing and the U.S. government ended up signing a fixed-price contract for $3.9 billion for just two aircraft to be designated VC-25B. As it happened, two B747-800s were languishing in open storage in the Southern California desert, having been ordered, but never delivered to a Russian airline that went bankrupt. Work began on those two airplanes in 2020. Boeing states they are losing 1.1 billion dollars on the contract. At present, delivery of the first VC-25B is expected in 2026-27 and the second a year or so later.

I would assume, that like many big-dollar high-profile procurement programs, there is actually far more being spent than is publicly acknowledged. The record indicates the cost is 5 billion dollars for the two airplanes (3.9 billion contract + 1.1 billion Boeing loss on the contract.) I'd wager it'll easily go 6 billion when you count the hidden costs. That'll be a 3 billion dollar plane that some U.S. president will be riding around in!

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The story on the Air Force One replacement is one of delays and cost overruns as well -- what a surprise!

Well. it's more than a ride. It's a Command Center with defensive measures ( Maybe offensive?) "farkled" to the extreme. I wonder if the current AF1s will be totaled or gutted for re-sale. Compared to commercial 747s, these airframes have low mileage and few cycles.

In the meantime:

The North American X-15 is a hypersonic rocket-powered aircraft. It was operated by the United States Air Force and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration as part of the X-plane series of experimental aircraft. The X-15 set speed and altitude records in the 1960s, reaching the edge of outer space and returning with valuable data used in aircraft and spacecraft design. The X-15's highest speed, 4,520 miles per hour (7,274 km/h; 2,021 m/s),[1] was achieved on 3 October 1967,[2] when William J. Knight flew at Mach 6.7 at an altitude of 102,100 feet (31,120 m), or 19.34 miles. This set the official world record for the highest speed ever recorded by a crewed, powered aircraft, which remains unbroken.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Well. it's more than a ride. It's a Command Center with defensive measures ( Maybe offensive?) "farkled" to the extreme. I wonder if the current AF1s will be totaled or gutted for re-sale. Compared to commercial 747s, these airframes have low mileage and few cycles.

You are correct that AF1 is a command/communications hub and has defensive systems, all at great cost.

The future of the two existing VC-25As will likely be in museums. It will likely be expensive to de-militarize them, removing sensitive systems.

[vreihen16]

They sent one of the last generation AF1 planes to Ronald Reagan's Presidential Library, so I'd imagine that they would send one of the current 747's to W's Library (for being the 9/11 command center) and the other one to the Smithsonian's collection.....

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

In the meantime:

The North American X-15 is a hypersonic rocket-powered aircraft. It was operated by the United States Air Force and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration as part of the X-plane series of experimental aircraft. The X-15 set speed and altitude records in the 1960s, reaching the edge of outer space and returning with valuable data used in aircraft and spacecraft design. The X-15's highest speed, 4,520 miles per hour (7,274 km/h; 2,021 m/s),[1] was achieved on 3 October 1967,[2] when William J. Knight flew at Mach 6.7 at an altitude of 102,100 feet (31,120 m), or 19.34 miles. This set the official world record for the highest speed ever recorded by a crewed, powered aircraft, which remains unbroken.

My lifespan + 4 months. Incredible that the record still stands.