Fake Watches -- Does it really matter?

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Z K

I think people are talking about cars made there, not cars owned by people there.

Have you been to Shanghai? People drive Ferrari 458s to the supermarket to shop for groceries.

If that's the car they are taking to the grocery store, they aren't buying that many groceries because there's not enough space in the car for that many. LOL. Probably, they loan the housekeeper/cook the Audi A8 (or extended wheelbase 3er) when they genuinely need to replenish their household provisions; that or have the driver take the housekeeper/cook there. <winks>

All the best.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I'm sure it's authentic. I don't really think Saks is selling fake goods, online or in their stores. LOL.

The point of the Burberry example was to highlight a straightforward enough case where lots of other makers offer a coat that is essentially identical in appearance to a Burberry trench coat -- as seen by a casual observer -- and yet isn't a Burberry. Take Brook's Brothers trench coat for example. If one doesn't see the label and lining pattern, one would not know it's not a Burberry.

That situation is substantively no different than seeing a watch that looks like a Rolex Datejust, for example, but isn't. Yes, there's a legal distinction (see my post above), but the meat of the matter is the same: visually and for the most part, they are indistinguishable to a casual observer, regardless of what label is on them.

All the best.

See your point, but it's been a long time since anyone has really "invented" anything as far as fashion is concerned. The modern trench coat you reference, and a large majority of men's fashion, can be traced back to the military. A lot in fact to the bad guys in WW2. That said your underlying point is valid.

[DS/B MCS]

Originally Posted by E90Alex

What rolex do you own that needs to be preserved/cant be worn as a daily?

+1
Unless it a vintage model or has sentimental value I don't understand not getting the enjoyment of wearing them. My Sea-Dweller is in regular rotation and gets worn at least weekly. My wife took over my Explorer II and now wears it as her primary watch.
It took me almost 5 years to save enough "loose change" to purchase my first Rolex, so I'm going to wear it and enjoy. Lots of other watches in my collection, but the Sea-Dweller and Speedmaster get the majority of wrist time.

[AlpineV8]

Originally Posted by DS/B MCS

+1
Unless it a vintage model or has sentimental value I don't understand not getting the enjoyment of wearing them. My Sea-Dweller is in regular rotation and gets worn at least weekly. My wife took over my Explorer II and now wears it as her primary watch.
It took me almost 5 years to save enough "loose change" to purchase my first Rolex, so I'm going to wear it and enjoy. Lots of other watches in my collection, but the Sea-Dweller and Speedmaster get the majority of wrist time.

+2
I wear my Sub daily. It is built to outlast me.

[E90Alex]

Originally Posted by DS/B MCS

+1
Unless it a vintage model or has sentimental value I don't understand not getting the enjoyment of wearing them. My Sea-Dweller is in regular rotation and gets worn at least weekly. My wife took over my Explorer II and now wears it as her primary watch.
It took me almost 5 years to save enough "loose change" to purchase my first Rolex, so I'm going to wear it and enjoy. Lots of other watches in my collection, but the Sea-Dweller and Speedmaster get the majority of wrist time.

Same thing goes for some people purchasing a 3 series and using another car as a daily driver(unless they did a super low mileage lease). What is the point of doing so. I can understand a gas guzzling c63 or maybe an m3.... but 335i?

[BEM-S4]

I cleaned out my grandmother's house and was literally throwing away tens of thousands of dollars of stuff with the tags still on being "saved for special occasions." Wear your stuff and enjoy it, if not what's the point?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

I cleaned out my grandmother's house and was literally throwing away tens of thousands of dollars of stuff with the tags still on being "saved for special occasions." Wear your stuff and enjoy it, if not what's the point?

Nothing worth selling?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by tony20009

If that's the car they are taking to the grocery store, they aren't buying that many groceries because there's not enough space in the car for that many. LOL. Probably, they loan the housekeeper/cook the Audi A8 (or extended wheelbase 3er) when they genuinely need to replenish their household provisions; that or have the driver take the housekeeper/cook there. <winks>

All the best.

There are a lot of rich Chinese people who have moved to the San Francisco area. It is not uncommon to see people driving exotics to the supermarket...

I saw a Chinese lady decked out in brand name clothing and high heels loading up the front passenger seat of her 458 with grocery bags and dog food at the supermarket. To them the car is just a grocery getter and they have something nicer to drive for the weekend.

I think everyone has a story about rich Asian kids flaunting their parents money at college... Kids rolling around in Aventadors at the local community college. The parking lots turn into a exotic car show. lol

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Z K

There are a lot of rich Chinese people who have moved to the San Francisco area. It is not uncommon to see people driving exotics to the supermarket...

I saw a Chinese lady decked out in brand name clothing and high heels loading up the front passenger seat of her 458 with grocery bags and dog food at the supermarket. To them the car is just a grocery getter and they have something nicer to drive for the weekend.

Not cool.

[tony20009]

My mistake. I was thinking PRC Chinese rather than the Chinese Americans whom you've observed.

Regardless of the country, I guess if one has the coin like that, one is free to do whatever one pleases with one's fancy car. Even non-wealthy folks are free to do as they see fit...it's really just a matter of how much money one can toss about rather than a difference in the mentality of how one uses one's stuff.

All the best.

Originally Posted by Z K

There are a lot of rich Chinese people who have moved to the San Francisco area. It is not uncommon to see people driving exotics to the supermarket...

I saw a Chinese lady decked out in brand name clothing and high heels loading up the front passenger seat of her 458 with grocery bags and dog food at the supermarket. To them the car is just a grocery getter and they have something nicer to drive for the weekend.

I think everyone has a story about rich Asian kids flaunting their parents money at college... Kids rolling around in Aventadors at the local community college. The parking lots turn into a exotic car show. lol

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Nothing worth selling?

Long story but had to be done in a single afternoon. Donated all of it to one of those "dress for success" women's charity things that was affiliated w a shelter. Nice clothes for job interviews and whatnot.

[RedlinePSI]

Originally Posted by Z K

I think people are talking about cars made there, not cars owned by people there.

Have you been to Shanghai? People drive Ferrari 458s to the supermarket to shop for groceries.

No but now I definitely wouldn't mind visiting if that's how it goes down. Also, I get that the topic was more about the domestics, but I figured that would also reflect in what's on the streets. SK domestics are legitimate, not straight blatant rip offs like some of those Chinese companies. I guess without knowing how people roll in China, and whether they buy those fake cars or not, it's not that valid a point.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by tony20009

My mistake. I was thinking PRC Chinese rather than the Chinese Americans whom you've observed.

Regardless of the country, I guess if one has the coin like that, one is free to do whatever one pleases with one's fancy car. Even non-wealthy folks are free to do as they see fit...it's really just a matter of how much money one can toss about rather than a difference in the mentality of how one uses one's stuff.

All the best.

Well, these are not Chinese American as in Chinese people who grew up in the US. They are immigrants from overseas who have moved to the US because they have a lot of money and want to enjoy the benefits of living in the US. (less crowded, better schools, cheaper cost of living, less pollution, food safety etc.)

Most of the time they bring their lifestyle to the US with them so they spend and live as they did overseas. Showing off brand name items and luxury goods is a sign to show one's stature in a country (China) where the economy is booming and money talks. Unfortunately it doesn't exactly translate the same to the US where showing off such things is sometimes distasteful.

And yes, people do drive their Ferrari to go shopping in China...

[P1]

And old boss of mine once told me that when you're explaining, you're losing. I think that applies to quite a few posts in this thread.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by tony20009

That situation is substantively no different than seeing a watch that looks like a Rolex Datejust, for example, but isn't. Yes, there's a legal distinction (see my post above), but the meat of the matter is the same: visually and for the most part, they are indistinguishable to a casual observer, regardless of what label is on them.

This is true. Most people don't know much about watches nor do they care.

I often get complemented on my Seiko 5 dive watch and they ask if it's a Rolex... I guess in some ways it looks like a Submariner and to them they can't tell the difference. It just looks like an expensive watch and they automatically associate that with a popular brand name like Rolex.

[Benedict1957]

Originally Posted by Z K

This is true. Most people don't know much about watches nor do they care.

I often get complemented on my Seiko 5 dive watch and they ask if it's a Rolex... I guess in some ways it looks like a Submariner and to them they can't tell the difference. It just looks like an expensive watch and they automatically associate that with a popular brand name like Rolex.

I am a huge fan of Seikos. Seiko 5s often run in the $50-$100 range and yet they're some of the best built, classiest looking watches on the market. They're spectacular.

A waiter at a restaurant was casually admiring my Seiko one time. Price was brought up during our discussion and he was blown away that such a nice looking watch only cost $400. He said it looked more like a $4,000 watch than a $400 watch.

With a Seiko you get 60% of the 'engineering' of a Rolex for 1% of the price. I've had my watch for probably 10 years now with 0 problems. It runs immaculately to this day.

[marvin100]

Form and substance aren't separable.

[John Tanglewood]

Originally Posted by P1et

And old boss of mine once told me that when you're explaining, you're losing. I think that applies to quite a few posts in this thread.

Apples and oranges my friend.

This is a forum for discussions, so explanations are what we do. To dismiss something because someone is trying to explain a position is to be insensitive, rude, and largely unappreciative.

[gtron]

i didn't read anything but the first post and i can't help but wonder if tony's art in his home is real or not.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by John Tanglewood

Apples and oranges my friend.

This is a forum for discussions, so explanations are what we do. To dismiss something because someone is trying to explain a position is to be insensitive, rude, and largely unappreciative.

+1 this is far from an ideal means of communication and things are often misunderstood.

[SenorFunkyPants]

What is the attraction of "designer" goods?
You are not really buying a better product...most any $500 watch will keep perfect time, last a lifetime and plenty of them are good looking timepieces.
I bought a replica IWC 3717, looks indistinguishable from the real thing and keeps perfect time - if I bought a real one would I enjoy the ownership experience more?... because it does nothing for me now (although when I bought it I thought it would), its on my wrist, it tells the time and thats it.
There must be some sort of Psychology that explains why for some people the pleasure of ownership of something is tied to its $ value more than the thing itself.
Even when I had a job where they paid me stupid money and plenty of my work friends bought Rolexs I bought a Seiko.
I suspect that even if I had a real IWC I wouldn't enjoy owning it more than the one I already have. I am always embarrassed when people have asked me how much I have paid for whatever expensive car I've owned.

[Darth Federer]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Every so often I find folks having conniptions over or poking fun at folks who wear fake watches. I don't really care if someone wears a fake watch; that's their business. I don't care if they knowingly represent a fake watch they are wearing (not selling) as an authentic one; that's their insecurity issue not mine. If someone willfully shares with me that their watch is fake, I usually just tell them it looks nice and maybe I'll ask them if it keeps good time. I do have a sympathy for folks who get scammed into buying a fake they believe to be authentic. But that's an entirely different matter.

The short is that someone else's fake watch has no real, direct impact on my ability to enjoy my own authentic ones. Yes, yes, I'm aware of the impact fakes have on the costs "authentic" makers incur to defend their trademarks, but if IMO, such assertions of increased cost often are bogus, or if not bogus, red herrings. Those very same authentic makers have plenty of internal inefficiencies they could address to more than make up for the trademark defense costs. Moreover, they spend more resources battling makers of watches that are "similar" rather than clearly fake.

For example, AP recently sued (and won) the maker of a watch that is clearly not an AP RO fake. The "offending" watch was a $300 or so watch that had a similar screw pattern and bezel shape, but the watch is labeled with that other maker's name/logo on the dial. This is what RO did despite the fact that as far as I know, they've not brought suit against one company making watches that are clearly fake ROs and have the AP name/logo on the dial. When I learn things like that, I can't help but wonder how much the issue of "fakes" really matters to the makers. I mean after all, nobody buying a $25 fake AP, or even a $500 one, is even likely to be considering buying a $15K+ authentic one, so there's no reasonable way to make a case for a direct loss of sales revenue due to fakes.

I have had folks who were at my home for social gatherings ask me if some of my art is real, but I've never had inquiries about my watches. Even so, watches, art, furniture, whatever, I don't take well to folks coming into my home and asking me questions of that nature, and I made it very clear to those individuals that with those questions they'd worn out their welcome. This is about how the conversation went.

They: Is that real?
Me: Do you think it's real?
They: Um, yes, it looks real to me.
Me: Would you know the difference if I told you it isn't real?
They: No.
Me: Then how would I know the difference? And why do you care? (before they could answer) You'll pardon me now, won't you?
They: Yes, of course.
Me: Thank you so much. I need to go see if the grass is still growing. Enjoy the rest of your stay.

I didn't see the offending parties leave my home, but I know I didn't see them mingling and chatting with other guests for long after that conversation. (To their credit, the cads at least had the integrity not to make such inquiries behind my back. That would have been worse IMO and upon learning of it, I'd have taken stronger action (not physical) than just letting them know they'd worn out their welcome.)

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with my self image, the items in question or anything else tangible. It has to do with the fact that it's just rude, it's crass; and it's plebeian to ask that sort of thing. It's none of their business; they either like the decor or they don't. I'm just fine either way in that sense; I'm not asking anyone to like my stuff as it's there for my enjoyment not theirs. It's the same with watches. One either likes the look/style a person exhibits or one doesn't.

So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?

All the best.

Are your gatherings anything like this?

http://youtu.be/qoIvd3zzu4Y