Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

You never owned a Toyota have you... because in 13 years owning my Scion over 83k miles, I had to spend a grand total of 1/4 quart of coolant, once. Not once have I had to put oil in outside of standard oil changes.

Using my own Scion as a benchmark over 60k miles (which uses the same motor as a 2012-2017 Camry), I have spent $600 over 10 oil changes, $75 in 1 coolant swap at the shop, 1 Costco Battery for $100

So total, if we use the idea of removing common consumables like tires and brakes between EV and ICE, I have spent a total of $775 over 60k miles.
I mean, more than 50% over estimate is not utter nonsense I guess....

My tires cost me $600, and that was Bridgestone RE980AS, not some cheapo tire.
I won't know the cost of replacing brakes since I did my own, but 2 sets of front pads, 1 set of rear pads, 4 rotors is about $250 USD from Rockauto
Total cost for me over 60k miles including tires: $775 + $600+250 = $1625

Let's compare to a Model 3, since we are talking here
I will assume a Tesla will consume the same brakes

2 sets of the same grade to my pads in rockauto 'premium' grade, Powerstops is $440 USD (rough estimate after conversion, this is 2 sets of front pads, 1 set of rear pads, 4 rotors)
1 set of Bridgestone RE980AS+ in 235/45-18 from tirerack is $783 USD after rebate.
Total cost for the Model 3: $1223

Even after adding brakes and tires, I am STILL under 2k

2K in maintainance over 60k miles likely applies more so to a BMW and had you use a BMW as a comparison then few would argue, but you are literally comparing to one of the most reliable cars with a low running cost.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Of course. But the idea that "tires don't count toward maintenance costs" is ludicrous. The Camry tires MAY be cheaper (not always, have to price them). This analysis included all services. I include everything, but depreciation isn't really important to me, cause I don't let them go much. But I don't exclude that from any analysis just because its convenient for my argument.

Shawn

if both vehicles need it, then i wouldnt count it in to the maintenance cost difference. if you want to include tires, then its 2k for the camry, and 1k for the tesla. for a net of 1k more in maintenance for the camry.

I priced them both for 2023s off discount tire.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by kyriian

You never owned a Toyota have you... because in 13 years owning my Scion over 83k miles, I had to spend a grand total of 1/4 quart of coolant, once. Not once have I had to put oil in outside of standard oil changes.

Holy mother of Pearl...

1993 Toyota Camry LE, owned from 1993 until 2012 when it was wrecked. 175,000 miles. All the scions are cheap crapboxes compared to that limo. It wasn't a huge amount of maintenance, but it wasn't as good as my 1992 Honda Civic CX, which is still on the road today, and the only things it needed were a water pump, and a drivers side interior handle.

Please stop jumping to conclusions. You might sprain your ankle.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

if both vehicles need it, then i wouldnt count it in to the maintenance cost difference. if you want to include tires, then its 2k for the camry, and 1k for the tesla. for a net of 1k more in maintenance for the camry.

I priced them both for 2023s off discount tire.

It's maintenance for them both. Tire cost and how much they wear them out is very important. I'll bet the Tesla wears out more expensive tires faster. My i8 wore out back tires like there was no tomorrow.

The whole thing centered around calling $2k in 60,000 miles for the camry not valid. It is. AND, honestly, if you're going to keep the damn thing, a transmission oil drain and fill as well as brake fluid, and probably brake pads. And one coolant drain and flush. Brake pads age, and don't brake as well at five years. It's just part of owning the car. As well as insurance, and property tax.

I'm not myopic on any of these. Not at all. But I CAN tell you that when maintained similar ways, the overall cost on an electric certainly SEEMS smaller when writing the checks, even when you DIY like I do (except tires and alignments, those machines are expensive).

Shawn

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Holy mother of Pearl...

1993 Toyota Camry LE, owned from 1993 until 2012 when it was wrecked. 175,000 miles. All the scions are cheap crapboxes compared to that limo. It wasn't a huge amount of maintenance, but it wasn't as good as my 1992 Honda Civic CX, which is still on the road today, and the only things it needed were a water pump, and a drivers side interior handle.

Please stop jumping to conclusions. You might sprain your ankle.

Shawn

Oh jeez...

Cherry picking my statment like how you do right?

Maths, YOUR very statement why EV has momentum is already discussed by everyone, 2k in maintainace, YOUR statement

My maintainace is 1625 including tires, not 2k

Model 3, including the same grade and consumption rate in brakes and tires, is at best $400 bucks cheaper over 60k miles,

I will state AGAIN, never have been pro ICE or pro EV, its just a fking car and if the maths work for you and anyone else great, good for you. But throwing random numbers like this is utter nonsense because its not true as Efthreeoh has already pointed out
You also seem to be the only one who add the same consumable costs to your equation, considering most EV uses tires faster, uses brakes faster (just heavier weight) so removing these two factors BENEFITS EV.

[freakystyly]

In reality the only fluid EVs don't use is engine oil unless the motors are direct drive. Coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid, washer fluid all present. And of course fuel but that isn't exactly a wear item... Wear and tear should reflect a heavier vehicle (minus brake pads thanks to regen).

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'd bet at 60,000 the Camry would still be on the original tires and brakes.

I believe that, a lot of all seasons have excellent wear these days.

It's shocking how many people in the general public never look at their tires until someone tells them to... going in for service or gov. inspection is often a benefit beyond the service expected.

[BGM-M3COMP]

2028 will really be the start of the party!

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

In reality the only fluid EVs don't use is engine oil unless the motors are direct drive. Coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid, washer fluid all present. And of course fuel but that isn't exactly a wear item... Wear and tear should reflect a heavier vehicle (minus brake pads thanks to regen).

Many are direct drive. And you're forgetting differentials. None of the EV drivetrains I've had so far have differential fluid (some of BMW's hybrid drivetrains do). Even if they have transmissions, because they aren't sitting next to a 250 degree lump of metal, the transmission fluid lasts longer because of lack of thermal stress.

Shawn

[freakystyly]

I'll admit most of my EV knowledge comes from quick google searches.

As far as I know there's at least one EV make with a transmission. And the open differentials on Teslas probably shouldn't be dry, are they? They're basically e-diffs that every other "performance" car maker use. Real mechanical LSDs are optional and it sounds like they don't come with them from factory, maybe the plaids.

[KRS_SN]

brother in law has a toyota hilux..he took me off roading in a mountainous area. The tyre climbed over one particular rectangular piece of rock the size of a Coffin and the chassis landed on the rock with an almighty thud...
He carried on and got the other wheels over the Rock and then stopped the car with a worried expression and stepped out and came back and told me ..."don't worry that rock is ok" .. 6 yrs on its had zero problems.

[BGM-M3COMP]

I love when regen puts energy back into the car! Can’t do that with ice!

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

I'll admit most of my EV knowledge comes from quick google searches.

As far as I know there's at least one EV make with a transmission. And the open differentials on Teslas probably shouldn't be dry, are they? They're basically e-diffs that every other "performance" car maker use. Real mechanical LSDs are optional and it sounds like they don't come with them from factory, maybe the plaids.

I know the i8 had a two speed transmission. Some do, some don't. So far, Tesla motor reliability has been MUCH better than expected. I still don't like them and have refused to buy one. My volvo has an entire "e-axle" in the back that gives it rear wheel drive that is separate from the front gas drivetrain. I can't tell that it has any fluid at all. Might.

Shawn

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

This administration has given oil companies millions of dollars to start up some shuttered refineries. Not many people know that or they don’t believe that. So they can say all they want about fossil fuels to the masses but get behind the scenes it’s the total opposite. Which should not surprise anyone. Lying fucks!!!!

[RM7]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

This administration has given oil companies millions of dollars to start up some shuttered refineries. Not many people know that or they don’t believe that. So they can say all they want about fossil fuels to the masses but get behind the scenes it’s the total opposite. Which should not surprise anyone. Lying fucks!!!!

Yep, major expansions here in Alaska.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Time to jive in 2035!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

Over here we're due a judicial review of what is known as ulez in London, it's all part and parcel of the anti motorist campaign by the man that controls public transport in the city and suburbs and his dislike for older fuel vehicles, but he's on a very expensive (for him) loser.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-policy.html

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Over here we're due a judicial review of what is known as ulez in London, it's all part and parcel of the anti motorist campaign by the man that controls public transport in the city and suburbs and his dislike for older fuel vehicles, but he's on a very expensive (for him) loser.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-policy.html

Not to make this political, but seriously I think people are going to start to push back against the progressives and I think it's a good thing.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Not to make this political, but seriously I think people are going to start to push back against the progressives and I think it's a good thing.

It's already started here, ul ez cams are being removed, ppl have had enough.
Next should be the end for the hitlerite 2030 stop date for fuel cars and a return for people to choose whatever car they want, petrol or EV.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Rut roh!!!

https://www.governing.com/next/as-ev...20construction.


Dang! The trend for the rest!

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Rut roh!!!

https://www.governing.com/next/as-ev...20construction.

Dang! The trend for the rest!

The UAW is just now starting to figure out that EV's mean fewer jobs, especially for Americans. Demanding that battery plants use a Union work force will not play well with the Chinese who own some or all of these battery plants. How did that Uyghur union push work out?

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by AlpineBoost

$744 in a month for gas How many miles do you drive per year? I'd have to drive almost 38k miles annually to spend that in a month and that's 93 oct at 17 mpg.

Yeah, that's about right. I drive 120 a day commute, drive around the city a little, and probably use half a tank, easily, on the weekends.

It was about $150 more, last month, since I went to Reno, and drove out to the south bay area, 3 weekends in a row. A round trip to the south bay, is about 3/4 of a tank, round trip. Reno and back is a tank.