The Airplane Thread

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Holy shite!

I'll take a dozen of each, please.

You can't even buy flying radio controlled models for those prices.....

[Llarry]

I seem to recollect that Frank Tallman of Hollywood fame bought a whole bunch of war-surplus aircraft at amazingly low prices. After he collected them, he drained and sold the avgas in 'em for more than he had paid for the whole deal! Free airplanes!

[Llarry]

Some F-35 updates:

-- The first UK Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm unit to equip with the F-35B Lightning II aircraft has reactivated at RAF Marham. 809 Naval Air Squadron joins the RAF's 617 Squadron as a frontline unit. The RAF also has a test unit and a training squadron. The F-35B units are jointly staffed with RAF and RN FAA personnel.

-- The Belgian Air Force is getting their first F-35A. They are taking delivery of the first of 34 aircraft on order at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, where training will take place.

-- As of December 2023, over 980 F-35s have been delivered to 12 nations. Over 2,250 pilots have flown the F-35 and over 15,000 maintainers have been trained on the F-35.

[Lady Jane]

Bob Hoover's Shrike Commander.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hoover

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_Commander_500_family




The things he used to do with that airplane. One engine? Sure. No engines? No problem...!

[ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman]

Is anyone here actually a pilot or just appreciate planes?

Once you become a pilot, driving just isn't the same, even a nice BMW of your choice just isn't as special feeling as flying in a 172 at 145kts groundspeed (166mph over the ground) past everyone below stuck in traffic. It just feels much more privileged.

Everyone has a car pretty much or a driver's license, so being a pilot is extra special

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

Is anyone here actually a pilot or just appreciate planes?

Once you become a pilot, driving just isn't the same, even a nice BMW of your choice just isn't as special feeling as flying in a 172 at 145kts groundspeed (166mph over the ground) past everyone below stuck in traffic. It just feels much more privileged.

Everyone has a car pretty much or a driver's license, so being a pilot is extra special

As you're new here I can confirm there are airplane pilots on here both active and retired.

[Llarry]

The patrol squadrons of the U.S. Navy's Patrol and Reconnaissance Force are now all using the Boeing P-8A Poseidon jet aircraft. The biggest remaining user of the Lockheed P-3 is Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron (VQ) ONE which continues to operate the EP-3E -- but which is not long for this world. VQ-1 also has one or more P-3Cs which are used for crew training. The squadron is scheduled to be disestablished in 2025, with the signals intelligence mission assumed by unmanned aircraft.

A few days ago, one of VQ-1's P-3Cs was observed visiting the RCAF's 19 Wing at Comox, British Columbia, for some landing practice. Despite external appearances -- the sonobuoy launch tubes on the underside and the MAD boom at the tail -- I suspect this aircraft has most or all antisubmarine equipment removed. But the photo is a great study of the P-3C Orion.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

A few days ago, one of VQ-1's P-3Cs was observed visiting the RCAF's 19 Wing at Comox, British Columbia, for some landing practice. Despite external appearances -- the sonobuoy launch tubes on the underside and the MAD boom at the tail -- I suspect this aircraft has most or all antisubmarine equipment removed. But the photo is a great study of the P-3C Orion.

Just like the CP-140 Acturus mainly used for training. Since I spent most of my youth at RCAF Comox, they were a daily sight, thundering above the MQs. You got used to it. The patches were only given to aircrew but I managed to get one using my charms. I was ten at the time...

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As you're new here I can confirm there are airplane pilots on here both active and retired.

..... let's go with "active, retired and (temporarily?) medically grounded".

It hurts less to read it that way.

R.

[RobotDoctor]

On my way home from Seattle to Florida via Denver.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

...
Once you become a pilot, driving just isn't the same, even a nice BMW of your choice just isn't as special feeling as flying in a 172 at 145kts groundspeed (166mph over the ground) past everyone below stuck in traffic. It just feels much more privileged....

Just remember the controller's mantra...

It's a big sky and they hardly ever hit.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

Once you become a pilot, driving just isn't the same, even a nice BMW of your choice just isn't as special feeling as flying in a 172 at 145kts groundspeed (166mph over the ground) past everyone below stuck in traffic.

FWIW, I beat a single-engine plane a little bit faster than a Cessna 172 from NJ to FL in my VW GTI about 35 years ago. No traffic on I-95, but lots of thunderstorms and IFR for the plane to circumnavigate. Plus, I was carrying a week's worth of luggage for the four people in the plane as ballast in my car.....

[ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

..... let's go with "active, retired and (temporarily?) medically grounded".

It hurts less to read it that way.

R.

Can't you get BasicMed? Special issuance? Statement of Demonstrated Ability?

Oh wait if you were suspended then you really can't.. Ouch

Originally Posted by vreihen16

FWIW, I beat a single-engine plane a little bit faster than a Cessna 172 from NJ to FL in my VW GTI about 35 years ago. No traffic on I-95, but lots of thunderstorms and IFR for the plane to circumnavigate. Plus, I was carrying a week's worth of luggage for the four people in the plane as ballast in my car.....

Must have had awful headwinds the whole way down lol

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

Can't you get BasicMed? Special issuance? Statement of Demonstrated Ability?

Oh wait if you were suspended then you really can't.. Ouch

Long story short-- a "nothing" glitch on my EKG turned into four stents to repair four arteries (including the Widowmaker) that were blocked at 80-90%.

No symptoms..... absolutely nothing to even remotely hint that there was a problem-- the cardiologist went through a bunch of tests with different results before doing the angiogram-- THAT found the problems. He basically told me that if they hadn't dug in after the EKG glitch, I would have dropped dead in a year or so.

After a stent installation, as per FAA protocol, you have to have a three month recovery period, then do several tests (including another angiogram) and then you can submit your package to the FAA Cardiac Board for a Special Issuance.

Unfortunately, when I did my recovery angiogram last week, they had to put in another stent. So that resets my clock back to zero.

So now I start all over-- wait *another* three months, then do the testing all over again (with yet another angiogram), and then submit the package to the FAA.

The current time for the FAA Cardiac Board to rule is running at 5-6 months from receipt of my package-- which means that I'm grounded for at least another nine months.... until roughly next September. My last flight was last June, so that'll put me down for 14-15 months.

I miss it every. single. day..... there are jobs, and there are professions.

Being a professional pilot tends to lean towards the profession end.

R.

[ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Long story short-- a "nothing" glitch on my EKG turned into four stents to repair four arteries (including the Widowmaker) that were blocked at 80-90%.

No symptoms..... absolutely nothing to even remotely hint that there was a problem-- the cardiologist went through a bunch of tests with different results before doing the angiogram-- THAT found the problems. He basically told me that if they hadn't dug in after the EKG glitch, I would have dropped dead in a year or so.

After a stent installation, as per FAA protocol, you have to have a three month recovery period, then do several tests (including another angiogram) and then you can submit your package to the FAA Cardiac Board for a Special Issuance.

Unfortunately, when I did my recovery angiogram last week, they had to put in another stent. So that resets my clock back to zero.

So now I start all over-- wait *another* three months, then do the testing all over again (with yet another angiogram), and then submit the package to the FAA.

The current time for the FAA Cardiac Board to rule is running at 5-6 months from receipt of my package-- which means that I'm grounded for at least another nine months.... until roughly next September. My last flight was last June, so that'll put me down for 14-15 months.

I miss it every. single. day..... there are jobs, and there are professions.

Being a professional pilot tends to lean towards the profession end.

R.

Ouch. How old are you if I may ask 🤔. So basically you no longer can even get BasicMed?

Well at least you can drive on the track 🚗

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

Ouch. How old are you if I may ask ��. So basically you no longer can even get BasicMed?

Well at least you can drive on the track ��

I'm 57.

And a Class III or Class II does me no good. I need a Class I to fly at my airline.

Tracking is still a thing.... but after a 60% pay cut, my discretionary income is a little tighter than it used to be.

R.

[Llarry]

Here's the story of the early Douglas Aircraft commercial and military twins -- the DC-3 and its predecessors:

-- Douglas started with the DC-1 in 1933 (not pictured). They only built one but it was the basis for the follow-on DC-2 of 1934, which was a commercial success and was also bought in small numbers by the military. The Army Air Corps had a number of designations for the DC-2: C-32, C-33, C-34, XC-38, C-39, C-41 and C-42. (Whew!) The Navy and Marine Corps also bought a few as the R2D-1. A total of about 200 DC-2 variants were sold -- pretty successful for the Depression 1930s. The photos include a DC-2 airliner, an Air Corps C-33 and an Air Corps C-39 military version of the DC-2 1/2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-2

Having achieved success with the DC-2, Douglas then further developed the aircraft as the Douglas Sleeper Transport (DST), considered to be the first of the DC-3 line. The concept was to fly passengers overnight with sleeping accommodations in the form of bunk beds, or to accommodate seated passengers in airline seats. The DST featured small windows for those in the upper bunks in addition to the regular row of windows along the side of the airplane.

The DC-3 really opened the floodgates of orders. In addition to domestic U.S. airlines, a large number of foreign airlines ordered aircraft. The military also ordered variants with a double-wide cargo door on the left rear, a reinforced floor for cargo and other detail changes, designating the result as the C-47 Skytrain. Once again, the Navy and Marines got in on the action with orders for the R4D-1.

After Pearl Harbor, most U.S. airline aircraft were taken over by the Army Air Force. Just to further confuse the designations, these were C-48s, C-49s, C-50s, C-51s, C-52s, C-68s and C-84s (!) Power for the aircraft came from either Wright R-1820 9-cylinder radials or Pratt & Whitney R-1830 14-cylinder radials, accounting for some of the variation.

Further improved C-47 models were introduced; for details, see the Wikipedia article. A version of the C-47 designed strictly for passenger transport -- and lacking the cargo door, etc. -- was produced in smaller numbers as the C-53 Skytrooper. Navy and Marine versions continued with the R4D designation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_C-47_Skytrain

The Douglas design was also manufactured under license in the Commonwealth countries as the Dakota, in Japan as the Imperial Japanese Navy L2D and in the Soviet Union as the Lisunov Li-2. A large number of nations operated civil, military and both U.S.- and foreign-manufactured aircraft, but the U.S. story is sufficiently complex that I will not address these. Suffice it to say that a huge number of aircraft were built: Over 16,000.

The C-47 Skytrain was the primary aircraft used worldwide during World War II for dropping airborne forces by parachute and for towing troop-carrying gliders used in airborne assaults. A large number were also used for high-priority personnel and cargo; the ex-airline DC-3s performed this function in the continental U.S.

After World War II, the impressed civil DC-3s were returned to the airlines and large numbers of C-47s were declared surplus or transferred to allies. In the initial postwar period, the DC-3 continued to dominate shorter routes, although its four-engine big brother, the DC-4 (military C-54) (not pictured) handled the longer-range routes.

The late 1940s and early 1950s saw newer improved aircraft introduced to the market and Douglas saw an opportunity to upgrade the DC-3/C-47 as those aircraft were in plentiful supply. The DC-3S (S for Super) was the result. Douglas was unable to find takers commercially or in the Air Force, but the Navy ended up buying 100 remanufactured aircraft as the R4D-8. These had revised, squared-off tail surfaces, a fuselage stretch, slightly swept wings and other improvements.

Another interesting development of the Navy versions was use in Antarctica. Both earlier R4D-5L and the later R4D-8L versions were adapted for skis and used on the ice.

The Vietnam war of the 1960s-70s brought further modifications. USAF C-47s were used for SIGINT collection (EC-47N, P and Q) and gained fame as the first gunship -- the AC-47D Spooky armed with three side-firing 7.62mm miniguns.

By the mid/late 1970s time had finally caught up to the DC-3 and its military cousins. Gas turbine-powered aircraft dominated the market and the DC-3 was increasingly found only in the third world or in collector's hands. Over the years, a few were even converted to use turboprops.

My own experience with the C-47 was slightly exciting -- in 1965 my parents and family went on vacation to Japan and Taiwan. Our return trip to home in the Philippines was via the base's C-47H and as we neared home, a fire caution light came on in the cockpit. We were met upon landing with several firefighting trucks. I think the light was a faulty indicator and we deplaned more or less normally.

[Llarry]

Early December of 1941 and Grumman was already producing F4F Wildcats at a decent clip. Of course, the rate of production would increase sharply after war started.

This interesting photo shows F4F fuselages stacked compactly in the Grumman factory at Bethpage just before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

The F4F carrier fighter would have to do for the first 18 months of the war against formidable opposition from the Japanese type Zero fighter. The Vought F4U Corsair was already flying but having difficulties and the Grumman F6F Hellcat existed only in preliminary drawings.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman

Well at least you can drive on the track 🚗

Thanks for cheering up the guy who did 7 weeks in the regional trauma center for a minor heart problem and had his competition license yanked for life by the mean doctors!

In all seriousness, I handed my cardiologist my racing physical form to fill out...and he gave me a signed permanent *lifetime* handicapped parking permit form instead.

I also can't qualify for a pilot license, CDL, railroad locomotive license, or even drive my car on the streets any further than from home to work or doctor appointments.....

[Llarry]

In addition to the huge numbers of C-47s, the U.S. military operated two larger air transports during World War II and those aircraft went on to commercial use after the war.

The Douglas DC-4 (USAAF C-54 or R5D) was a big step up from Douglas' twins, with four engines and greater payload, range and speed. While early design was civil-oriented, the C-54 Skymaster first flew in 1942 and the vast majority of aircraft -- over 1,000 -- were built for the services. Like the C-47, after the war, surplus aircraft were used by the airlines as DC-4s, and Douglas built 79 commercial DC-4s postwar as well. The C-54 holds the distinction of being the first aircraft used for transport of the U.S. president.

The standout period for the C-54 was the Berlin Airlift in 1948-49 when the Soviets cut off surface transport routes to West Berlin. Allied aircraft began a prodigious effort to supply the city with food and fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_C-54_Skymaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-4


The Curtiss C-46 Commando (manufacturer's designation CW-20) first flew in 1941. It was a larger twin-engine aircraft than the C-47 using more powerful Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engines. Over 3,000 C-46s were built, including some R5Cs for the Marine Corps. The C-46's claim to fame came with the air supply of critical cargo to Nationalist China over the Himalayas. The C-46 had better performance for the arduous flights over "The Hump" as it was called. Postwar, the C-46 was not as successful as the DC-4, as running costs were mostly deemed too expensive for commercial use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_C-46_Commando

Like the smaller DC-3 and C-47, these transports/airliners were mostly retired by the 1970s.

[ImActuallyAParrotNotHuman]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

I'm 57.

And a Class III or Class II does me no good. I need a Class I to fly at my airline.

Tracking is still a thing.... but after a 60% pay cut, my discretionary income is a little tighter than it used to be.

R.

Oh, didnt know you were at an airline, you're right. Every 6 months you need to see an AME

[Llarry]

The photo in my DC-3/C-47 post reminded me of the U.S. military support of scientific activities in the Antarctic that have gone on for many years, starting with the U.S. Navy's Operation High Jump in 1946-47, which was primarily carried out by ships. In 1955, the Navy established Antarctic Development Squadron SIX (VX-6, later VXE-6) to focus on support of Antarctic activities.

VX-6 operated a number of R4Ds, both wheel- and ski-equipped, to support U.S. research stations on the continent, staging through New Zealand for the long flights to and from Antarctica. In October of 1956, one of those R4Ds landed at the South Pole. Flight activities were generally restricted to the summer months, avoiding harsh weather conditions. There were accidents and several aircraft were lost.

In addition to R4Ds, VX-6 operated ski-equipped P2V-7LP (later LP-2H) Neptunes on the ice. They also operated helicopters, such as the HUS-1 (UH-34D) and later the UH-1N Huey. In the early days, they even operated the DHC Otter (U.S. Navy designation UC-1).

In 1961, VX-6 took a major step forward when they obtained four Air Force C-130Bs and modified them with wheel/ski gear for operations from the ice. They were shortly thereafter redesignated LC-130F and were similar to Air Force C-130Ds, which were used for Arctic support. In the 1970s, VXE-6 got six newer LC-130Rs.

Takeoffs on the ice were dramatic, often involving the use of JATO rocket assist to shorten the takeoff run.

The Air Force had concentrated their C-130D ski birds in the New York Air National Guard and over the years replaced these early 130s with LC-130Hs.

In the late 1990s, the decision was made to turn over aviation support of Antarctic research from the Navy to the NY ANG's 109th Airlift Wing with their LC-130H ski birds. A couple of the best Navy 130s were converted to LC-130Hs for use by the 109th.

In 1999, VXE-6 was disestablished, ending Navy involvement in Antarctic activities. The 109th continues the mission with its 10 LC-130Hs; there has been some discussion about upgrading to LC-130Js but so far, no funds have been found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deep_Freeze