Navy thread

[billnchristy]

Read or watch videos on the advanced combat rifle program where the government paid $300 million dollars to learn that putting a scope on an M-16 makes it more accurate.

They have balls to talk about fiscal responsibility when it is completely foreign to them.

[billnchristy]

The Navy is doing Fleet Fest in October in Norfolk, my old ship (the GW) is going to be open for tours. We're driving up 8 hours so my wife and kids can see the majesty and utter hopelessness that is a Navy ship. I can't wait. I haven't been on that ship since 2001. I'm sad I can't show them anywhere I worked other than pointing to doors since everything is classified, but I am hoping I can show them where I slept.

There's also a destroyer and 2 CG cutters to tour and we plan on hitting the Wisconsin while we are there too. I've never been on an Iowa class, but it was in the shipyard when we were and I remember marveling at it's size.

[Llarry]

Diesel Boats Forever! was the cry of the Diesel submarine sailors in the 1960s-on in an increasingly nuclear-powered submarine Navy. The DBF breast insignia (gold for officers and silver for enlisted) was unofficial and unauthorized but widely and proudly worn seemingly in defiance of a growing nuclear-powered submarine force.

There were a huge number of submarines left over from World War II in 1945 and many were updated with improved systems such as snorkels, improved batteries, etc.

But the Navy did not want to totally abandon submarine construction and so built five classes of Diesel-electric submarines after the War. These also incorporated improvements -- many utilizing German U-boat technology gleaned in 1945.

The first of these classes was the Tang class: Six boats designed in the late 1940s/early 1950s that joined the fleet in the 1950s. The hull numbers were 563 to 568 and they were workhorses through the 1970s. At the end of their service lives, several were scheduled to be transferred to the Shah's Iranian Navy, but the Islamic revolution put an end to those plans. Several were subsequently transferred to the Turkish Navy.

Some of the Tang class -- and subsequent classes -- boats were fitted with the BQG-4 Passive Underwater Fire Control Feasibility Study (PUFFS) fire control system for the nuclear-tipped Mark 45 torpedo. PUFFS was quite distinctive, with three large sonar antennas sticking up from the deck when the boats were surfaced. The Mark 45 was command-detonated, and it was critical to know the range to the target lest the warhead destroy not only the target but the firing submarine.

The hull form of the Tang class largely followed older submarines; they were not optimized for underwater speed. But they were fitted with snorkels when built and had improved battery capacity over the older WWII boats.

The next class was the Sailfish class; just two boats (SSRs 572 and 573) designed to be radar picket submarines and completed with large radar antennas aft of the sail. The concept was flawed and the radars were soon removed, leaving the SS 572 & 573 as relatively large subs with plenty of interior space without the electronics associated with the radar picket mission. These two boats also got PUFFS and again were optimized for surfaced, not submerged speed.

The next class was also very specialized; the Grayback and Growler (SSGs 574 and 577) were cruise missile-firing submarines with large hangars to house Regulus missiles (just two missiles per boat). Like the Sailfish class, the mission did not last long: The Regulus was a bit of a dud and ballistic missile submarines were coming. That left these two boats with a huge compartment forward (former missile hangar) and they soon assumed a mission as home to Navy SEALs and the like. Towards the end of their careers, they were designated as LPSS (Submarine amphibious transport).

Then there was the USS Darter (SS 576), a single boat that was an improved Tang and the last Diesel attack submarine built with a traditional hull form. It also featured PUFFS. (Not pictured)

The final class of American Diesel-electric attack submarines was the best, as it married the old Diesel-electric propulsion technology with the new teardrop hull form optimized for underwater speed. Three boats were built of the Barbel class: SSs 580-582, and these were the final Diesel boats in active service. They were commissioned in 1959 and served until 1988-1990. One boat (ex-USS Blueback SS 581) is preserved as a museum ship in Portland, Oregon.

In 2014, an old Navy buddy from the 1970s visited Oregon. We were both veterans of Diesel boat runs, and so used the occasion to visit the Blueback in Portland.

A final note on quality of life aboard these Diesel boats: A thin film of oil covered all interior surfaces of the boat and soon covered me as well. Fresh water was in short supply; shaving was discouraged, and showers were permitted once per week for the crew. Somehow the hardships made the DBF crowd all the prouder -- shared hardship, I guess.

And a note on hull numbers: At least in my years in the Navy, when submarines deploy, they paint out their numbers. If you see a photo with a number on the sail, the boat is probably in home waters.

[billnchristy]

That's the ultimate form of curmudgeony. Nuke boats are bigger, the only thing coated in oil is the engine room, and water is easily made and available, but hell, I'll just take misery because that's the way it was and we liked it!

We had a hard time making water in the Persian Gulf. The distillers were rated to 100 degree seawater inlet temp and the gulf had 110 degree water. Our output went from 70k or so to about 20k a day per unit. (They were 100k gpd units but you rarely made that much). 20k is barely enough to even provide reactor feed water makeup so they put the ship on water rations. We in the engine room said the hell with that, we're making it, and we're standing here in 130+ degree heat to do so, we're showering and drinking the multiple gallons a day required to not die.

[Llarry]

Nice overhead shot of the USS Florida (SSGN 728) with a Dry Deck Shelter (DDS) mounted on deck. The DDS is frequently seen on the four ex-SSBN SSGNs and is useful to store items for use by SEALs etc.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The DDS is frequently seen on the four ex-SSBN SSGNs and is useful to store items for use by SEALs etc.

Here's some more info on the Dry Deck Shelter, used by U.S. and UK Royal Navy submarines. Two DDSs can be mounted on the SSGNs (see 1st photo) or a single DDS can be mounted on an SSN.

The DDS consists of three parts -- from forward to aft: A decompression chamber, a middle section that has a hatch into the submarine and a larger chamber used to store minisubs or equipment. (See last photo)

[Llarry]

A bit more info about what goes into the DDS: There are basically two bulky items that I'm aware of -- one is the rubber raiding craft used by special operators and others all over the world, and the other is the SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV), which is a minisub with 2 operators which can carry 4 SEALs.

The SDV has been progressively improved over the years with more speed and longer underwater range. It's not really all that "mini" with a length of 22 feet and an underwater speed of 6 knots max. Apparently there are armed versions as well; information on Special Operations gear is a bit tough to come by.

It appears to me that the SDV Mark 8 has been replaced by the SDV Mark 11. (3rd & 4th photos) Major differences in the two include the use of Lithium-ion batteries in the later model and a greatly increased operating depth -- the Mark 8 is a shallow-water model, while the Mark 11 can go down considerably deeper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Delivery_Vehicle

[M5Rick]

Chinese nuclear sub disaster as 55 sailors are feared dead that were probably caught in their own trap.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ellow-sea.html

[M-technik-3]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Chinese nuclear sub disaster as 55 sailors are feared dead that were probably caught in their own trap.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ellow-sea.html

This has been in the unconfirmed news for a few weeks. I highly doubt the Chinses will confirm it's true.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

This has been in the unconfirmed news for a few weeks. I highly doubt the Chinses will confirm it's true.

First time we're seing it over here and of course they would never confirm or deny it happened like their neighbouring country did at first with the Kursk..absolutely disgusting how the top bods who decide treat their service personnel as expendable fodder.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Llarry

According to Wikipedia, the two former SSBNs (MTSs 626 and 635) are either retired or imminently to be so and two Los Angeles class SSNs have been converted to newer MTSs: MTS-701 La Jolla and MTS-711 San Francisco.

Now the Secretary of the Navy has announced the future name for Virginia class SSN 810 is to be (the future USS) San Francisco. So do the Moored Training Ships not have names? Is MTS 711 still referred to as the San Francisco?

[billnchristy]

When I was on them they still had their name but were referred to by number, like "Are you on the 626 or 635?"

[Llarry]

The collier USS Jupiter (AC 3) was the first U.S. Navy ship to transit the Panama Canal. Jupiter was commissioned in 1913 and decommissioned in 1920 for conversion into the USS Langley (CV 1), the first U.S. Navy aircraft carrier.

The Langley was the only operational carrier to omit the island superstructure above the flight deck. All subsequent ships had an island.

In the 1930s, the Langley -- by then too slow and outdated to operate with other carriers -- was converted into a seaplane tender, with the forward portion of her flight deck removed. She was sunk by Japanese forces in the Pacific in early 1942.

Photo #1: USS Jupiter (AC 3)
Photo #2: USS Langley (CV 1) 1927
Photo #3: USS Langley (AV 3)

Footnote: If you are interested in naval aviation history, the 1927 silent film "Flying Fleet" is fascinating, with lots of film footage of operations from the Langley during her career as an aircraft carrier. Kind of a cheesy story, etc., but the aerial footage made up for it for me.

[Llarry]

The Langley was joined by two very impressive aircraft carriers in the late 1920s: The USS Lexington (CV 2) and the USS Saratoga (CV 3) were sister ships and were converted from large battlecruisers that had been authorized for construction, but then cancelled due to a naval limitation treaty. The mission of the aircraft carrier was still a topic of controversy -- the aviators saw the potential for the carrier to become the main striking force of the fleet, while the battleship admirals saw the carrier as primarily a scout to find the enemy so that the battleships could engage them with their guns. There were a lot of fleet exercises in the 1930s using the early carriers to sort the missions out. The missions did not really finally shake out until just before World War II, when the striking power of the aircraft carrier became clear to all.

The Lex and Sara were completed with 8" guns to protect themselves from enemy surface units -- in early 1942 these were removed and replaced with 5" dual-purpose anti-surface/anti-aircraft guns. In addition, both ships got a large array of lighter anti-aircraft guns.

Treaty limitations also limited the total tonnage of aircraft carriers allowed to the U.S. (and other navies) and so at the same time there was controversy over a few big carriers versus more numerous smaller carriers. The next carrier, the USS Ranger (CV 4) represented the smaller end of the scale. Many thought the pendulum had swung too far with the Ranger design and World War II proved them correct: The Ranger was too small and too slow (by only a few knots) to operate with the Pacific carrier task groups and thus spent the war on the Atlantic side, largely as an aircraft transport and training carrier.

The next class leader was the USS Yorktown (CV 5) and here the Navy felt they had found the "sweet spot", not as large as the Lexington class and much larger than the Ranger. The Yorktown class included three aircraft carriers and emphasized aviation capabilities over surface action capabilities. The Yorktown class also provided a template for the improved design of the World War II Essex class built in large numbers.

It was a good thing that the Navy authorized construction of the USS Essex (CV 9) and her sister ships before the war started, as the early wartime battles in 1942 and 1943 took their toll: The Lexington was lost at the Battle of the Coral Sea in May 1942 (last photo) and the Yorktown was lost just a month later at Midway. Other losses followed, but the Japanese fleet suffered heavy losses as well and the Essex class was on the way soon thereafter.

[Llarry]

The USS Kearsarge (BB 5) was a pre-dreadnought battleship of the U.S. Navy that served on active duty as a BB from 1900 to 1920. In the 1920s, she was converted to a crane ship for very heavy loads, such as gun turrets or main battery guns for newer battleships. In the latter role she was designated as Crane Ship No. 1 (AB 1).

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by JP10

Larry, what’s your thought on the Navy’s 2 + 1 goal?

A new development on the topic of submarine construction and the goal of building two SSNs and one SSBN per year: The President's budget proposal for aid for Israel and Ukraine also includes $3.4 billion for development of the submarine shipbuilding industrial base. This sounds like a step in the right direction, although a fuller solution would be the addition of a third submarine building location to the existing two at New London and Newport News, both of which are delivering new boats way behind schedule. The added burden of AUKUS may add to the problem if the U.S. yards are expected to build SSNs (or components) for Australia.

Given the chaos in Washington D.C. these days, it's anybody's guess as to whether that $3.4 billion will actually happen.

[billnchristy]

USS Wisconsin from our trip to Norfolk

[billnchristy]

USS George Washington from our trip to Norfolk

[Boomer 2019]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

USS Wisconsin from our trip to Norfolk

What is all the netting and barbed wire for on the foredeck?

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Boomer 2019

What is all the netting and barbed wire for on the foredeck?

Possibly LEDs, I noticed some other pics with string lighting.

[billnchristy]

They deck her out for Christmas. Last year they had 1.5m lights, this year they are doing 2m. The decorations started in August and are not complete yet.

Here's a pic:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/uploa...=70&width=2018

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

USS George Washington from our trip to Norfolk

I'm always amazed when on the pier next to a carrier: This enormous and complex thing was built by man?!?

(And I've never been on the pier next to a CVN; my experience is with 1950s-60s carriers that were half the displacement of a Nimitz class carrier.)