Michelin Pilot AS4's, doable for winter if you can pick your battles??

[baege]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

Get real winter tires.

I cannot understand people that spend the money for this level of a vehicle and then question paying a couple of thousand more to make the car safely drivable in the winter.

I got caught out in a freak storm once without the correct tires. That was enough for me

it's not about the money but rather the hassle, inconvenience and risk involved in changeovers twice a year

[baege]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I had Michelin Alpin PA4 winter tires for 3 years on my M235. I hated every moment of it. They handled and braked like utter garbage in temps above 40 degrees. This is a problem because during the Kansas City winter season (December to March) has a ton of 40+ degree days in addition to 0 to 30 degree days and 15-20" snow per season (usually 1" to 2" events). The snow traction wasn't overly impressive either for the compromises in warmer winter weather. The wear was also terrible as winter tires have very soft rubber thus wear extremely fast. I got 15K out of the tires before they were toast. What bothered me the most was the ill handling and braking though. The car is FAR better at accident avoidance with the AS4s in nearly all winter conditions except of driving in snow which accounts for maybe 2% of the winter conditions I drive in. Why prepare for the absolute worst case rather than the norm?

I've driven in 35 Kansas City winters with all sorts of cars and the M235 is the ONLY car that I ever outfitted with winter tires because I bought into the Kool-Aid on these forums that because I lived in an area with true winter, I needed winter tires. I got suckered. The ONLY time I got stuck in the snow was in my wife's 2007 Outback driving in a blizzard and freak snow storm and got it high centered in about 12" on unplowed snow in our hilly neighborhood.

your point about preparing for the worst rather than the norm is bang on. In my case I can just avoid the worst and not go out if things look dicey.

I had PA4's on my M2 comp and was not a huge fan and honestly I didn't feel that confident in the snow with them anyways.

I just want to feel free enough to go out and about as long as they aren't forecasting much more than an inch of snow for the time period I will be out, sounds like the AS4's will cut it for that kind of use.

[baege]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If you guys are getting around fine on 305/30/20 AS4 all seasons on RWD cars in the same winter climate and conditions as the OP (Toronto, apparently), then he should be fine as well.

I have an AWD car with 305/40/20 (cushier sidewall) AS3 all seasons and it was so bad in snow that I bought a set of 19'' snow wheels and narrower snows with bigger sidewalls after the first couple of snows. But this is in NH and the winters may be worse.

the AS4's are quite a bit better than the AS3's in snow from what I gather

[freakystyly]

Our city workers driving the plows do an excellent job around here, I have to say... They'll be out there pre-salting the roads with hundreds of tons of salt or brine at the rumour of a snow flake. Main roads get priority of course.

Just remember winter tires aren't mandatory in Ontario and there will be cars behind you struggling to stop with much worse tires. Both times I've been rear ended were in the winter by minivans who couldn't stop for a stop sign. Thankfully low speed, very minor damage.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by baege

it's not about the money but rather the hassle, inconvenience and risk involved in changeovers twice a year

do you have space to swap them yourself? It takes me 45 mins on my e90. I use Blizzak 235 square perf winter tires and they are excellent up to 60 deg as a winter tire.

Yes a bit softer rubber as temps go up but stiffer sidewall. The biggest issue you will have is braking and stopping. Let’s say you are out driving and freezing rain starts. I’d want my perf winter tire all day long. No way I’d risk plowing into a wall or going downhill and not being able to stop at intersection. Huge risk!

[Alfisti]

I doubt he has the space I think he lives downtown. I live in the burbs and I cannot be arsed storing all the tools, the jack, the hassle etc. I run winter rubber on the wife's family suv but on my DD I switched to Michelin CrossClimate because of the hassle and truth be told we get very little snow, the roads are plowed and if it does snow the traffic will be so horrendous you ain't doing more than 20 mph.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by baege

the AS4's are quite a bit better than the AS3's in snow from what I gather

Probably. I have AS4 on wheels for another car and have run them the last 2 winters instead of the snow wheels. But that car is AWD. And each spring I am happy to take the AS4 off and put the summer wheels with PS4 back on. The PS4 are quieter, handle better and ride better than the AS4.