Why is dealing with a home salesmen so difficult?

[e90335e36m3]

I won't go into all of the frustrating things I've heard over the past few months coming from my realtor, to sellers, and so on, and yes, I know this is a seller's market, but my experience from this weekend takes the cake.

I see a new construction home on Saturday at 5PM, tell the sales agent on site that I want to move forward, he tells me, I need a preapproval letter, deposit and will get you contract shortly. I have a preapproval letter but he encourages me to use their lender to save on closing costs, OK no problem. I initiate the funds transfer ahead of contract, call the lender, they need me to provide all paperwork up front just to get preapproval (e.g. W2, insurance policies on my other properties, pay stubs, all assets and so forth). I sit for 3 hours collecting the data. 7 PM Saturday, sales agent calls asks where my preapproval is? I explain to him they are making it very difficult to get preapproved, so it's out of my hands. I send him confirmation of funds transfer initiation.
Sunday 5 PM (24 hours later) I receive a purchase agreement, 70 pages with all applicable addenda. Start reading, asking for clarifications and stuff, but leisurely, I take my time regardless of whether its a standard builder's contract.
Sunday 7 PM get text from sales agent that I must sign agreement before end of day because his "management" needs this by end of day. At 8 PM on a Sunday??? I respond that I need 24 hours and have other priorities that I need to get to. Sales agent says no dice. My realtor calls me says oh no this is normal in this market it's ok. I say no it's not OK.
Sales agent sends texts, this is a standard contract, nobody ever takes this long. I text back I negotiate contracts for a living and this is an unacceptable way of doing business.
Sales agent texts back, it seems you're not interested in buying home. I respond, I sent you a $xxxxxx deposit, and spent 3 hours doing a prequal last night with your lender, if that's not an indication of interest I don't know what is.
If you won't give me time, then rescind the agreement and reject the funds transfer. He says ok.
Tuesday, of course transfer cleared and I am in the unenviable position of working to recover my money.

I don't understand this at all. Giving me an extra 12 hours is not only the right thing to do but the fastest way to a sale.

What am I not understanding?

[VAcurler]

Depending on where you live, the MLS agreement may be standard for your State and not able to be changed, but generally speaking this sounds like someone else also wanted the same property.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by VAcurler

Depending on where you live, the MLS agreement may be standard for your State and not able to be changed, but generally speaking this sounds like someone else also wanted the same property.

This was a standard builders agreement which I know are generally non-negotiable, but nevertheless it's incumbent on a buyer to know what rights and obligations are, especially around termination, contingencies and so forth.

In this particular case, financing fell through for the previous buyer so it came on the market same day as I saw it.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

I won't go into all of the frustrating things I've heard over the past few months coming from my realtor, to sellers, and so on, and yes, I know this is a seller's market, but my experience from this weekend takes the cake.

I see a new construction home on Saturday at 5PM, tell the sales agent on site that I want to move forward, he tells me, I need a preapproval letter, deposit and will get you contract shortly. I have a preapproval letter but he encourages me to use their lender to save on closing costs, OK no problem. I initiate the funds transfer ahead of contract, call the lender, they need me to provide all paperwork up front just to get preapproval (e.g. W2, insurance policies on my other properties, pay stubs, all assets and so forth). I sit for 3 hours collecting the data. 7 PM Saturday, sales agent calls asks where my preapproval is? I explain to him they are making it very difficult to get preapproved, so it's out of my hands. I send him confirmation of funds transfer initiation.
Sunday 5 PM (24 hours later) I receive a purchase agreement, 70 pages with all applicable addenda. Start reading, asking for clarifications and stuff, but leisurely, I take my time regardless of whether its a standard builder's contract.
Sunday 7 PM get text from sales agent that I must sign agreement before end of day because his "management" needs this by end of day. At 8 PM on a Sunday??? I respond that I need 24 hours and have other priorities that I need to get to. Sales agent says no dice. My realtor calls me says oh no this is normal in this market it's ok. I say no it's not OK.
Sales agent sends texts, this is a standard contract, nobody ever takes this long. I text back I negotiate contracts for a living and this is an unacceptable way of doing business.
Sales agent texts back, it seems you're not interested in buying home. I respond, I sent you a $xxxxxx deposit, and spent 3 hours doing a prequal last night with your lender, if that's not an indication of interest I don't know what is.
If you won't give me time, then rescind the agreement and reject the funds transfer. He says ok.
Tuesday, of course transfer cleared and I am in the unenviable position of working to recover my money.

I don't understand this at all. Giving me an extra 12 hours is not only the right thing to do but the fastest way to a sale.

What am I not understanding?

Production builders with their code minimum cookie cutter construction sometimes think they're gods gift to society.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

.... I see a new construction home on Saturday at 5PM, tell the sales agent on site that I want to move forward, he tells me, I need a preapproval letter, deposit and will get you contract shortly. I have a preapproval letter but he encourages me to use their lender to save on closing costs, OK no problem. I initiate the funds transfer ahead of contract, call the lender, they need me to provide all paperwork up front just to get pre-approval (e.g. W2, insurance policies on my other properties, pay stubs, all assets and so forth). I sit for 3 hours collecting the data. 7 PM Saturday, sales agent calls asks where my preapproval is? I explain to him they are making it very difficult to get preapproved, so it's out of my hands. I send him confirmation of funds transfer initiation.
Sunday 5 PM (24 hours later) I receive a purchase agreement, 70 pages with

What am I not understanding?

First, you should be getting this answer from your realtor/representative. But, since you asked... Why would you get pre-approved only to take the time to seek secondary approval? You had no reason, at that junction, to submit anything for additional approval. That's why got pre-approved. You could have submitted your contract and changed lenders later. This seems to be a residence under construction so closing would likely be in 90 days, or more, down the road, there was no reason you couldn't use a different lender later if they would save you money - later.

Then you wired money BEFORE a contract was submitted or approved. Again, why? Many years ago a check for "earnest" money was expected upon submitting the contract but now, because everything is done electronically, most transfers I'm involved in happen upon contract acceptance, not before. It seems as if you, or your realtor, was allowing the seller to dictate terms that were in opposition to standard practices.

As I'm sure you know, you can take as much time as you choose to review, modify and counter any contract. Of course, during that time, anyone could submit an acceptable contract and beat you out of the house.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

First, you should be getting this answer from your realtor/representative. But, since you asked... Why would you get pre-approved only to take the time to seek secondary approval? You had no reason, at that junction, to submit anything for additional approval. That's why got pre-approved. You could have submitted your contract and changed lenders later. This seems to be a residence under construction so closing would likely be in 90 days, or more, down the road, there was no reason you couldn't use a different lender later if they would save you money - later.

Then you wired money BEFORE a contract was submitted or approved. Again, why? Many years ago a check for "earnest" money was expected upon submitting the contract but now, because everything is done electronically, most transfers I'm involved in happen upon contract acceptance, not before. It seems as if you, or your realtor, was allowing the seller to dictate terms that were in opposition to standard practices.

As I'm sure you know, you can take as much time as you choose to review, modify and counter any contract. Of course, during that time, anyone could submit an acceptable contract and beat you out of the house.

I'll answer for him. Builders will have or partner with a mortgage company. The deal is If buyers use that mortgage company the builder will pay a big chunk of the buyers closing costs. It could be 6% or more in fees.

[2000cs]

When I get that much resistance/hassle/whatever buying anything, I walk. I know unqualified buyers take up sales dudes time, but I’m qualified and I explain that up-front (letter or not). Nothing is worth dealing with pricks and martinets.

I always use my own lender and agent. If that isn’t acceptable to the seller, I’m out. I don’t think I would ever buy a new build spec home, but I would contract to build custom. So I might never encounter the OP’s circumstances. But I’d take that as an indication of how the entire build will go, and it would really put me off.

[e90335e36m3]

It really was incredibly unprofessional.
I offered to use my pre approval, met with resistance, if you submit your existing letter up front, you can't switch to our lender later to take advantage of the closing costs offer. Weird, but ok, no problem I'll get your lender's pre-approval.
He tells me, like with other lenders it's very quick, except their lender has been burned so they do the full approvals process up front, he later tells me when following up about the status of pre approval. Then changes his tune on using my first preapproval. Well how about the closing costs offer? Thought I couldn't get it if I use my existing pre approval.
The submittal of the deposit and receipt of contract were supposed to occur in parallel. I went home and did my part. The seller closed shop at 5 PM Saturday and didn't get me the contract until 5 PM Sunday, and used "we are closed" as an excuse for the delay.
Yet, on Sunday night 4 hours after sending me the contract, I have to have it signed for his management approval…bullshit.
I went along with the time is of the essence approach, but everything has its limits.
If these are the kinds of practices this builder uses in capturing sales, I can only imagine how the warranty process works…it's for the best it didn't close, I just have to work to recover my deposit now.
In terms of perspective, I'm not buying a piece of software here, I'm buying a house. I don't care what other people do but I take that kind of commitment seriously, and expect the seller to understand that.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

......If these are the kinds of practices this builder uses in capturing sales, I can only imagine how the warranty process works…it's for the best it didn't close, I just have to work to recover my deposit now.
In terms of perspective, I'm not buying a piece of software here, I'm buying a house. I don't care what other people do but I take that kind of commitment seriously, and expect the seller to understand that.

Agreed.

[tdott]

I also had issues dealing with a builders lender. Incompetent fools, would ask for the same documents multiple times, had 3 months to get their shit together, at 5pm on the Friday before closing, he asks for all updated documents. Needless to say we missed closing by a few days because of the lenders incompetence.

The only reason I put up with it was because they gave $25k towards closing costs. 1 year later I refinanced and got a way better rate and it was a much smoother process when I choose my own lender.

Regarding the sales agreement, it was a different market when I bought, agents weren't greedy for above market sales. They gave us time to consult with our lawyer, then we brought a signed contract and certified check to submit the contract.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

As I'm sure you know, you can take as much time as you choose to review, modify and counter any contract. Of course, during that time, anyone could submit an acceptable contract and beat you out of the house.

I've clarified the situation a bit above, but I take exception to this statement, even if factually correct. If a prospective buyer takes all reasonable steps to move forward with a purchase, and then some (e.g. advance deposit, applying with buyer's lender) and communicating with the seller's agent regarding some elements of the contract...and the seller does not reciprocate with some degree of reasonableness, and I don't believe asking 12-24 hours to review the deal is unreasonable and furthermore the seller concludes within two hours that "it seems that you don't really want the house", that's dealing in bad faith, ESPECIALLY, when the seller also does not disclose to a prospective buyer that another contract may be executed imminently and that my efforts, however reasonable and expedient, may be all in vain. Because guess what, he gladly took my money and didn't give two shits about a hit on my credit or the time that I wasted to work with his lender, or the time that I am now spending to recover my money. Shoddy business practices, no matter how you slice it.

[vreihen16]

Reading all of this makes me thankful that we were in a position to pay cash for our retirement lot back in the spring! No hassles whatsoever, and a 10-minute lawyer's office visit for the closing when the time came.....

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Reading all of this makes me thankful that we were in a position to pay cash for our retirement lot back in the spring! No hassles whatsoever, and a 10-minute lawyer's office visit for the closing when the time came.....

That's the direction I'm heading...build on a secluded lot, not in a master planned community. I bought my first home in CLT in 2017, and remember it being painless...maybe because it was a cash deal.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

That's the direction I'm heading...build on a secluded lot, not in a master planned community.

Our 5-acre wooded lot is about 45 minutes south of CLT as the crow flies, on a motorboat lake but with a 50-foot elevation rise to build away from any flood threat. It was one of the rare lots in that area with no planned community, no HOA, and no deed restrictions from Duke Energy. (Duke's boilerplate deed restrictions include things from minimum square footage down to exterior construction materials...NOT friendly to an all-steel barndominium!)

The county there uses IBC, which is a change of pace from up here were every municipality/fiefdom makes up their own building codes on a whim. The only stumbling block is that the zoning has a nuisance clause about accessory building footprint size versus main residence footprint size. It prevents me from building a 10-car garage and small house as separate buildings. Not a huge problem in the end, since we want everything under one roof in the barndominium when we're done. I just need to get a feel for how the county permit folks feel about a yankee coming to town and building what looks like a large steel accessory building with no freestanding house on the property. I want to put up the shell, and then take our time finishing out the living space inside as time/funds permit.

We just received the 2022 property/school tax bill from the county. I'm still in shock that the total yearly taxes are actually less than a McRib meal bundle at our local Mickey D's here in upstate NY.....

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Our 5-acre wooded lot is about 45 minutes south of CLT as the crow flies, on a motorboat lake but with a 50-foot elevation rise to build away from any flood threat. It was one of the rare lots in that area with no planned community, no HOA, and no deed restrictions from Duke Energy. (Duke's boilerplate deed restrictions include things from minimum square footage down to exterior construction materials...NOT friendly to an all-steel barndominium!)

The county there uses IBC, which is a change of pace from up here were every municipality/fiefdom makes up their own building codes on a whim. The only stumbling block is that the zoning has a nuisance clause about accessory building footprint size versus main residence footprint size. It prevents me from building a 10-car garage and small house as separate buildings. Not a huge problem in the end, since we want everything under one roof in the barndominium when we're done. I just need to get a feel for how the county permit folks feel about a yankee coming to town and building what looks like a large steel accessory building with no freestanding house on the property. I want to put up the shell, and then take our time finishing out the living space inside as time/funds permit.

We just received the 2022 property/school tax bill from the county. I'm still in shock that the total yearly taxes are actually less than a McRib meal bundle at our local Mickey D's here in upstate NY.....

I live in Waxhaw, so definitely in your vicinity. May reach out to you privately to pick your brain about the logistics involved in building on a plot of land and to better understand compromises like well water, septic tanks and so forth that goes into building a home like what I'm thinking. Always want to stop by a random house I see driving around and ask about builders used and other stuff, just don't want to get shot lol.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

May reach out to you privately to pick your brain about the logistics involved in building on a plot of land and to better understand compromises like well water, septic tanks and so forth that goes into building a home like what I'm thinking.

I'm still in the early planning stage, with zero direct experience in the construction field. There was another thread with someone from the Seattle area going for several months earlier this year, and he was much further along and dealing with architects and stuff. It's probably a few pages back, and had buying property in the subject.

Our current house in the woods here has well and septic. The water that comes out of the ground is non-potable, and actually eats through copper pipes and rusts stainless steel utensils. One of my DW's former careers was working in municipal water treatment for both a small town and also an *extremely* large city, and she engineered a multi-stage water system for our house that makes the water at least tolerable for washing. We have a water cooler for cooking/drinking, and weekly deliveries of several 5-gallon jugs.

When we went property shopping in SC, municipal water and gigabit fiber were two must-have items. Septic doesn't scare us, since we'll likely both be dead before the system needs major repair. The seller of our lot had an approved septic permit that expired, so we have the basic engineering and proposed layout to re-apply when the time comes.

My old man built his own house when I was in college. Not very much of what he did on his wood house with a basement applies to an all-steel barndominium on a concrete slab, though. I picked up a book from Amazon that was an overview of the DIY barndominium planning/construction process, which gave an OK overview things like construction loans, permits, excavation, and what you might want to pay tradespeople to do. It wasn't a crash course in being a GC (general contractor) and managing sub-contractors, but my lifetime's experience managing IT projects for a pay check makes me feel like it wouldn't be crazy to try and GC most of it myself...or at least let me be able to talk with a GC to make sure that they are following my non-traditional plans.

Anyway, I just did a Google search and found DETRoadster's thread from the spring:

https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/s....php?t=1808634

Change the host name in the URL to be whatever BimmerPost site you are reading this thread on, and feel free to read up on his experiences with the process so far in the Seattle area.....

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

That's the direction I'm heading...build on a secluded lot, not in a master planned community. I bought my first home in CLT in 2017, and remember it being painless...maybe because it was a cash deal.

if you're finding a weekend wasted on trying to buy a house to be too frustrating, do not even think about having a custom home built.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I'm still in the early planning stage, with zero direct experience in the construction field. There was another thread with someone from the Seattle area going for several months earlier this year, and he was much further along and dealing with architects and stuff. It's probably a few pages back, and had buying property in the subject.

Anyway, I just did a Google search and found DETRoadster's thread from the spring:

https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/s....php?t=1808634

Change the host name in the URL to be whatever BimmerPost site you are reading this thread on, and feel free to read up on his experiences with the process so far in the Seattle area.....

Man I gotta update that thread. So much has happened in the last month!

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

if you're finding a weekend wasted on trying to buy a house to be too frustrating, do not even think about having a custom home built.

Indeed.