Homemade Guns

[Hawkeye]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...chines-n821516

Apparently assembling parts (which is about as hard as a beginner lego figure) is now considered a "homemade gun". I love how ignorant the people that write these things are. They make it seem like if you buy the parts it doesn't have to be legal or have a serial number. While true with most of the parts, the lowers are registered and are treated as a firearm even without any of the other parts on it.

On a slightly different topic, I actually have a friend that works as a blacksmith/forger and he has made a rifle from scratch. It is more of the style you would have seen in the 1800s though.

edit: After reading their "Ghost guns" link it seems they are talking about ordering an unfinished receiver where they ship you all of the parts and instructions to finish it, which seems like a stupid loophole to still have open IMO.

[GuidoK]

I dont know how it is in the US, but where I live I think a suitable barrel and maybe some parts of the firing mechanism is already classified as a gun (and requires a permit to have or sell, with all the corresponding paperwork).
That way its impossible to make a gun by buying unregistred parts, and those parts that require registration are usually the most difficult to make.

[Hawkeye]

As far as I know, the laws around making your own weapons are fairly non existant here. You don't have to register them to have them. I am not sure if you would have to register to carry them. I do know you would be in a world of hurt legally speaking even if you legally used one for self defense and it was not registered...

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I dont know how it is in the US, but where I live I think a suitable barrel and maybe some parts of the firing mechanism is already classified as a gun (and requires a permit to have or sell, with all the corresponding paperwork).
That way its impossible to make a gun by buying unregistred parts, and those parts that require registration are usually the most difficult to make.

Different in different countries. In the US the frame/part containing the firing control group is the registered firearm (I think the FN SCAR falls into a grey area here and the upper is the serialized part), in fact Sig (perhaps others by now) has a hand gun where the serialized part can be moved from polymer frame to polymer frame with different slides, basically you can have 3 sizes of guns with the same serial number (one at a time).

Now in CA you have to have even home made guns serialized and registered (At least that is a pending law).

My understanding is that 'Ghost' guns are not used in crime very much if at all (I really don't trust the main stream media to get this right, assembling a gun from parts is very different from completing an 80% firearm that has no serial number). It is much easier to illegal obtain a firearm then build one. The people who build one are doing it as a hobby. I have done a couple (which are now out of the state of CA due to new/pending laws, and because I have a place out of state to send them, they were perfectly legal when I built them).

I can telly you from experience it is cheaper to buy a new gun (not to mention a used or 'cheap' gun) then to build one, and you don't have the hours tied up in them (I had nearly 30 hours in one build I did, and pile of special tools that are not cheap, milling out an AR takes less time, but requires several special tools).

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

As far as I know, the laws around making your own weapons are fairly non existant here. You don't have to register them to have them. I am not sure if you would have to register to carry them. I do know you would be in a world of hurt legally speaking even if you legally used one for self defense and it was not registered...

Absolutely, I wouldn't even carry a modified 'stock' gun. I wouldn't carry anything but factory loaded high quality ammunition in it. (I like Hornady Critical Defense)

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by KenB925

My homemade firearm, for your viewing pleasure.

That is beautiful but they frown on (and ban for) posting firearm pictures in any thread that is not the Firearms thread. Just an FYI, I will admire it over there though!

[Ross61]

Originally Posted by KenB925

My homemade firearm, for your viewing pleasure.

Dude - that is beautiful.

Did you start with an 80%?

I have an idea for a company which would produce Nighthawk quality frames, slides, and barrels where the purchaser assembles after receiving. Just curious how you began with these components.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by KenB925

My understanding is that 'Ghost' guns are not used in crime very much if at all (I really don't trust the main stream media to get this right, assembling a gun from parts is very different from completing an 80% firearm that has no serial number). It is much easier to illegal obtain a firearm then build one.

Probably only those sniper rifles that fold into a crutch fall into that catagory

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Ross61

Dude - that is beautiful.

Did you start with an 80%?

I have an idea for a company which would produce Nighthawk quality frames, slides, and barrels where the purchaser assembles after receiving. Just curious how you began with these components.

ok, i deleted the pic

i started with an 80% from 1911builders.com

they would argue that they make Nighthawk quality frames. really, the frame is only as good as the person fitting it. This is the first one i made, i took my time and it turned out great. it ran well the first time i took it to the range. I have not shot it much due to law changes here in CA.

it’s definitely a fun project, anyone with patience can do it, you spend a lot of time with small files in your hands

i have a couple frames to complete that i had etched with a serial number (from 1911builders) that i made up so i can legally have them.

you can actually buy slides, barrels, safetys, mshs, etc from wilson, nighthawk, ed brown, caspian, all of the small parts in this gun are ed brown, the msh is wilson, the beaver tail is ed brown (or wilson, i can’t remember right now and i have purchased both)

for parts check out brownells and midway usa they have all that cool stuff

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

As far as I know, the laws around making your own weapons are fairly non existant here. You don't have to register them to have them. I am not sure if you would have to register to carry them. I do know you would be in a world of hurt legally speaking even if you legally used one for self defense and it was not registered...

I do not believe using an unregistered gun is illegal, there are lots of unregistered guns in this country. If your owned the guns prior to the recent gun laws you are not required to registered them even if you built your own gun. Most all the guns in my family are not registered. We have owned then a long time or they were bought through private sales from people who also owned them a long time.

As it has been pointed out in some news reports there are no laws against gun smithing your own weapons, the issue only arises if you try to sell it. No one today even a private sale is allowed sell a gun without a serial number which goes back to an original gun manufacturer which is licensed to sell guns.

The idea of gun registration, is only about if the gun is found at a crime scene police can trace it back to the owner.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I do not believe using an unregistered gun is illegal, there are lots of unregistered guns in this country. If your owned the guns prior to the recent gun laws you are not required to registered them even if you built your own gun. Most all the guns in my family are not registered. We have owned then a long time or they were bought through private sales from people who also owned them a long time.

As it has been pointed out in some news reports there are no laws against gun smithing your own weapons, the issue only arises if you try to sell it. No one today even a private sale is allowed sell a gun without a serial number which goes back to an original gun manufacturer which is licensed to sell guns.

The idea of gun registration, is only about if the gun is found at a crime scene police can trace it back to the owner.

When I was talking about registering, I was talking about the gun being registered with the government (having a serial number) and not about being registered to an individual. I agree, the amount of guns that are not registered to the person that owns them is probably really high. I know I have sold half a dozen to friends and family and not submitted any type of paperwork other than keeping a bill of sale in my records.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

When I was talking about registering, I was talking about the gun being registered with the government (having a serial number) and not about being registered to an individual. I agree, the amount of guns that are not registered to the person that owns them is probably really high. I know I have sold half a dozen to friends and family and not submitted any type of paperwork other than keeping a bill of sale in my records.

Again, I am not up on the most recent laws, I do not believe a gun with a serial number is register with government. I do not believe the manufactures have to tell the government they made a gun and sold it. They have to keep recordsto whom each serial number was sold, no different than Automotive companies. I am not sure what gun dealer do. In the case of an auto, once the car is sold to the public and title transfer the government track each an every owner of the car. Gun are not done this way, the information is still in paper form and not in any electronic database. This is what people would like, they would like to trace every gun like they do with a car.

I this case define what Registered means?

[Maynard]

I think the story got it basically right - don't know why the OP wrote "I love how ignorant the people that write these things are. They make it seem like if you buy the parts it doesn't have to be legal or have a serial number. "

That seems to be exactly what happens - you assemble a pile of parts that you bought for the purpose, and voila, you are a clever little guy with an AR15 that nobody has official records of. Now TECHNICALLY our shooter might have had some obligation to register it, but since I think he was under an order of protection he probably 'neglected' to do that. This whole post illustrates that this is now common knowledge how to skirt restrictions on these types of guns. If you firearms lovers don't get your heads out of your butts and start putting legislation in place that will actually permit sensible controls, then eventually the public will revolt and take them all away. Right now the NRA is making a joke out of any legal efforts, mostly in the name of pumping up sales. A 5 year old can see that the laws are gerrymandered into uselessness, and it makes all of you legitimate shooters and sportsmen look like you are supporting these maniacs.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I think the story got it basically right - don't know why the OP wrote "I love how ignorant the people that write these things are. They make it seem like if you buy the parts it doesn't have to be legal or have a serial number. "

That seems to be exactly what happens - you assemble a pile of parts that you bought for the purpose, and voila, you are a clever little guy with an AR15 that nobody has official records of. Now TECHNICALLY our shooter might have had some obligation to register it, but since I think he was under an order of protection he probably 'neglected' to do that. This whole post illustrates that this is now common knowledge how to skirt restrictions on these types of guns. If you firearms lovers don't get your heads out of your butts and start putting legislation in place that will actually permit sensible controls, then eventually the public will revolt and take them all away. Right now the NRA is making a joke out of any legal efforts, mostly in the name of pumping up sales. A 5 year old can see that the laws are gerrymandered into uselessness, and it makes all of you legitimate shooters and sportsmen look like you are supporting these maniacs.

why don't we just make it illegal to kill somebody with anything?

the laws that are on the books now are not enforced, what good will more laws do?

Who gets to decide what 'sensible' is?

Nothing is going to stop bad people from doing bad things, except perhaps somebody stopping them as soon as they start.

What we really have is a mental health problem that is presenting itself like a gun problem.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Again, I am not up on the most recent laws, I do not believe a gun with a serial number is register with government. I do not believe the manufactures have to tell the government they made a gun and sold it. They have to keep recordsto whom each serial number was sold, no different than Automotive companies. I am not sure what gun dealer do. In the case of an auto, once the car is sold to the public and title transfer the government track each an every owner of the car. Gun are not done this way, the information is still in paper form and not in any electronic database. This is what people would like, they would like to trace every gun like they do with a car.

I this case define what Registered means?

This is correct as far as i know. The only time the government knows who an authorized firearm dealer sold a gun to is when they have the serial number because it was used in a crime.

The laws are different from Autos to Guns because owning a gun is a constitutional right and owning a car is not.

People like to think there is no way to trace a gun to who purchased it and where, but as you can see from the Vegas incident, that is not true. The authorities and media were interviewing the firearms dealers where he bought the guns within a day or so of the shooting. Now if he had purchased from a private seller who originally purchased the gun as new, the police would have been at the original purchaser's door asking questions. That private seller had better have a bill of lading along with a DL info proving the person he sold it to was a state resident. Otherwise, the original seller would be facing charges for not following private sale protocol.

Originally Posted by Maynard

I think the story got it basically right - don't know why the OP wrote "I love how ignorant the people that write these things are. They make it seem like if you buy the parts it doesn't have to be legal or have a serial number. "

That seems to be exactly what happens - you assemble a pile of parts that you bought for the purpose, and voila, you are a clever little guy with an AR15 that nobody has official records of. Now TECHNICALLY our shooter might have had some obligation to register it, but since I think he was under an order of protection he probably 'neglected' to do that. This whole post illustrates that this is now common knowledge how to skirt restrictions on these types of guns. If you firearms lovers don't get your heads out of your butts and start putting legislation in place that will actually permit sensible controls, then eventually the public will revolt and take them all away. Right now the NRA is making a joke out of any legal efforts, mostly in the name of pumping up sales. A 5 year old can see that the laws are gerrymandered into uselessness, and it makes all of you legitimate shooters and sportsmen look like you are supporting these maniacs.

1st, one does not simply "assemble a pile of parts". One first has to finish the last 20% of the manufacturing of what is called, the firearm. This usually at least involves owning a drill press. One may be able to get by using a drill, but it's not easy and certainly isn't precise. It's much easier to get a fake ID and buy one used in your state. 2nd, anyone who has been into firearms didn't need this post to illustrate how to produce a firearm for personal use. Only those who let their emotions run them view this as some modern day loop hole allowing millions of criminals access to guns who otherwise wouldn't be able to access them.

You act like we the firearms lovers, make the laws. We most certainly do not. In turn i suppose i'd respond with; If you gun haters don't get your heads out of your asses and start proposing legislation that actually makes sense and has a snowball's chance in hell of preventing anyone other than law abiding citizens from owning guns, then you'll continue to be met with fierce opposition. There are a few reasonable laws that could be put in place, but gun haters don't want to hear about them. It seems they're only interesting in reducing the law abiding citizen's ability to own guns.

The current laws aren't useless. In fact if they had been followed by the entities of the government which instituted the current laws, the Texas church shooting may well have never happened. There are reasonable laws on the books that are not being enforced. There are reasonable laws on the books which law enforcement officials admit they lack the manpower to enforce. So the first thing you may hear from a gun lover once they get their head from their ass is them suggesting that when you take your head out of your own ass, you might want to first call for the proper enforcement of the current laws on the books. While you're at it, ask the government prosecutors to stop bypassing mandatory minimum sentences when it comes to prosecuting criminals who used a gun in a crime.

Also, one might deduce from your logic, that all Muslims who don't openly denounce the few Islamic Radicals and call for more legislation to prevent terrorism, which actually only regulate themselves, look to you like they support all those maniacs.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Again, I am not up on the most recent laws, I do not believe a gun with a serial number is register with government. I do not believe the manufactures have to tell the government they made a gun and sold it. They have to keep recordsto whom each serial number was sold, no different than Automotive companies. I am not sure what gun dealer do. In the case of an auto, once the car is sold to the public and title transfer the government track each an every owner of the car. Gun are not done this way, the information is still in paper form and not in any electronic database. This is what people would like, they would like to trace every gun like they do with a car.

I this case define what Registered means?

I was under the impression that the government had records of all of the firearms produced. Perhaps I was wrong.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I was under the impression that the government had records of all of the firearms produced. Perhaps I was wrong.

It roughly knows of the number of new firearms sold because of the FBI national background checks performed for each purchase. But it does not have a list of type, brand or serial numbers for firearms manufactured or sold.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

It roughly knows of the number of new firearms sold because of the FBI national background checks performed for each purchase. But it does not have a list of type, brand or serial numbers for firearms manufactured or sold.

Yes, this is my understanding as well, the paper/computer records are there but the government has to manually check the records. The case of the Vegas guy, they know records of his background checks and knew what dealers he bought guns from, so they could quickly got to them and find out his purchase history. But they do not know where all he bought ammo. The gun control people want records of ammo purchase as well, they want to have it registered as well.

The biggest reason the gun lobby will not allow the gun database to be held by the government is what happen in the UK, everyone had to register their guns and then eventually they outlaw the ownership and then had a list to know who to collect from.

[Maestro]

Every time I hear this who debate about people wanting everyone's gun taken away I always think of this photo, I know it is fake. But I like showing it to any gun control person I meet. I tell them I will post this sign next to their house and they can not stop me since it my 1st amendment right to free speech. then say do you also plan to take the right away as well.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Yes, this is my understanding as well, the paper/computer records are there but the government has to manually check the records. The case of the Vegas guy, they know records of his background checks and knew what dealers he bought guns from, so they could quickly got to them and find out his purchase history. But they do not know where all he bought ammo. The gun control people want records of ammo purchase as well, they want to have it registered as well.

The biggest reason the gun lobby will not allow the gun database to be held by the government is what happen in the UK, everyone had to register their guns and then eventually they outlaw the ownership and then had a list to know who to collect from.

Want...It's already happened in our lovely nation's capital. How do I know? A good friend of mine was arrested....let me repeat this....arrested for having unregistered ammo in his bag. He was going into a Federal building and went through security. I guess the guard was having a bad day and called Metro PD to come take him into custody. People I know who are Federal Police Officers said the guy took it to the extreme. Normally, the ammo would have been brought to the person's attention and then locked up in a locker for him to retrieve later. And I want to make clear, there was no corresponding gun with him that this magazine could be used with.

So Metro PD comes and arrests him under the aforementioned charges. He spends the night in jail. And then spends the next few months dealing with legal issues around this. From what I recall, he spent $20k in attorney's fees because the prosecutor wouldn't drop the charges and wanted this to go all the way in front of a judge. This is a person who has never been arrested in his life. Has a squeakie clean history/background. Holds a Federal Government security clearance.

I told him he should have gone to the NRA about this debacle. But he just wanted this whole thing to be overall.

Forgot to add, the judge spent only a few minutes hearing the case and threw it out.

[UncleWede]

My cousin's buddy makes lower 80%, in Cali!!! My brother used one to shot a wild boar up in Paso Robles. It worked so well the bullet went clean thru the first pig, and hit another behind it. Luckily my cousin was along with an extra tag. That backstrap, in a pan of bacon grease from the morning, on the BBQ grill was some of the best meat I have ever eaten.