Bob Lutz on the future of the automobile

[zx10guy]

Lost in all this talk about autonomous vehicles is the motorcycle component of vehicles on the road. If you thought there's that fringe of car owners who are fanatical, that's nothing compared to people on 2 wheels.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Lost in all this talk about autonomous vehicles is the motorcycle component of vehicles on the road. If you thought there's that fringe of car owners who are fanatical, that's nothing compared to people on 2 wheels.

Right, and an autonomous motorcycle wouldn't make sense

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Right, and an autonomous motorcycle wouldn't make sense

would be virtually impossible to make.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by EdM5

What makes you think my frame of reference is the Netherlands? I work internationally.

Because your avatar says "Amsterdam" and the flag displayed is Holland's. Also note that I said you "live" there, not that you "work" there (though that's typically assumed).

Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Lost in all this talk about autonomous vehicles is the motorcycle component of vehicles on the road. If you thought there's that fringe of car owners who are fanatical, that's nothing compared to people on 2 wheels.

Oh boy HOWdy are you right about that. Though: motorcycles are available now with gyroscopes that keep them from tipping over when parked, and BMW claims its most recent BMW Motorrad concept doesn't even require a rider to wear a helmet. I'm skeptical as hell about the latter (I'm sorry, but no open motorcycle can keep a bee from bruising your forehead, putting your eye out, or diving kamikaze-style into your throat at 60 mph), but seriously: were either of those things even conceivable 10 years ago on a bike?

[vinylengraver]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

would be virtually impossible to make.

I beg to differ.
They are getting close:

Just not close enough.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by vinylengraver

I beg to differ.
They are getting close:

Just not close enough.

But thats not really an autonomous motorcycle vehicle, as there is no human passenger. Its a motorcycle with robotized passenger.
With a motorcycle, shifting of the body weight is a big part in the steering.
I'd like to see how a motorcycle will be driving autonomously with a passenger onboard that doesnt shift its weight in the corners, or even shifting his weight the opposite way (which would make the motorcycle really unstable), and still manages to steer around corners on higher speeds.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Because your avatar says "Amsterdam" and the flag displayed is Holland's. Also note that I said you "live" there, not that you "work" there (though that's typically assumed).

Just sayin'.



Oh boy HOWdy are you right about that. Though: motorcycles are available now with gyroscopes that keep them from tipping over when parked, and BMW claims its most recent BMW Motorrad concept doesn't even require a rider to wear a helmet. I'm skeptical as hell about the latter (I'm sorry, but no open motorcycle can keep a bee from bruising your forehead, putting your eye out, or diving kamikaze-style into your throat at 60 mph), but seriously: were either of those things even conceivable 10 years ago on a bike?

I recently had that very thing happen to me. I didn't have my riding leather zipped all the way up at my neck. Something smacked me near my collar bone and I felt this immediate excruciating stinging pain that wouldn't go away. When I got to my destination and took off my leathers, a bee fell out. Stung the heck out of me.

As far as technology and motorcycles, it's amazing what's possible today. Running an S1000RR on the track has simply been amazing with the clutchless up/downshifts, ABS, traction control, and computer controlled suspension damping. But with all of these advances, it still requires a lot of rider input which still makes motorcycle riding extremely engaging. More than with driving the most sought after super car.

I don't see how anyone that rides even casually will allow motorcycle riding to be autonomous without putting up a serious fight. If autonomous motorcycles are delayed in rolling out, how will manually driven motorcycles be accommodated with the autonomous vehicle infrastructure?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

But thats not really an autonomous motorcycle vehicle, as there is no human passenger. Its a motorcycle with robotized passenger.
With a motorcycle, shifting of the body weight is a big part in the steering.
I'd like to see how a motorcycle will be driving autonomously with a passenger onboard that doesnt shift its weight in the corners, or even shifting his weight the opposite way (which would make the motorcycle really unstable), and still manages to steer around corners on higher speeds.

You got that right about body position being a major influence over how a bike handles and turns.

[vinylengraver]

I remember reading somewhere that "if the motorcycle was invented today it would be outlawed tomorrow".
So in light of recent advances... let's enjoy while we can.
I know I am.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Unless driving is outlawed globally i don't see the market accepting the change naturally.

What WILL happen is that eventually someone will admit they cannot get full autonomy working with other drivers on the road so it will only work if all the cars are talking to each other and there is no driver, which right now no one wants to admit but it clearly true.

And this is why autonomous vehicles will never happen. The cost of conversion far outstrips the GDP of any nation that will try to implement it. Any transition that includes humans in the loop will cause havoc on the roads and the death rate will increase rather than decrease, which will drive citizen and legal outcry to abandon the idea. That, and in the US at least, people will have a difficult time giving up the freedom of anonymous travel.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Right, and an autonomous motorcycle wouldn't make sense

LOL. Not with my ass on it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I can totally see current HOV lanes and possibly even left most lanes of interstates being given over to autonomous cars in the near future. Even giving heavily trafficked routes over exclusively to self driven cars would allow for fewer traffic lights or stop signs and significantly speed up traffic flow. Hell, unlike an American driver, autonomous cars will even be able to handle traffic circles.

Meanwhile, the few holdouts for driving their own car will likely get squeezed to specific secondary routes and racetracks, where they can drive their flappy paddle, stability controlled, anti collision cars around on their "own" and feel manly.

Have you ever seen an HOV lane in any city/suburban area other than a freeway? I haven't. Any road that has a cross street (with or without a traffic signal) does not have HOV lanes. Autonomous travel only on HOV interstate lanes is a very small component of the overall traffic environment and would not be economically viable to produce vehicles and the infrastructure to control them.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by vinylengraver

I remember reading somewhere that "if the motorcycle was invented today it would be outlawed tomorrow".
So in light of recent advances... let's enjoy while we can.
I know I am.

I'll admit, I'm stale on current bikes (for the past decade ), so embarrassingly I have to ask what Duck is that. I checked Ducati's website and didn't see it.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll admit, I'm stale on current bikes (for the past decade ), so embarrassingly I have to ask what Duck is that. I checked Ducati's website and didn't see it.

Looks like a Sport Classic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_SportClassic

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Looks like a Sport Classic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_SportClassic

Thanks Brother. Neat bike.

[vinylengraver]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll admit, I'm stale on current bikes (for the past decade ), so embarrassingly I have to ask what Duck is that. I checked Ducati's website and didn't see it.

2007 Ducati GT1000
Modern bike with classic looks.
Love it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by vinylengraver

2007 Ducati GT1000
Modern bike with classic looks.
Love it.

Looks sweet. I'll never forget the first time I heard a Desmo valvetrain. That and the Honda 1st gen VFR 750 gear-driven. Those two are my favorite motorcycle engines to listen to.