Tesla Model S P85D vs Audi RS7 vs Alpina XD3 track battle

[DocWeatherington]

[ashtaron14]

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

What is shocking or the credit to BMW-Alpina is the fact that the BMW wasn't that far off in the time 1.1 seconds of the winner. Granted it is a small track

However not bad for an SUV that is down 341hp from the most powerful car...:party0030:

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

What is shocking or the credit to BMW-Alpina is the fact that the BMW wasn't that far off in the time 1.1 seconds of the winner. Granted it is a small track

However not bad for an SUV that is down 341hp from the most powerful car...:party0030:

I don't think it credits the BMW, but rather it discredits the Tesla. For having an acceleration that can keep up with even hypercars, the Tesla is really slow. But that is the whole Tesla marketing stunt. The car is only fast @ 0-100 km/h acceleration test, all above it can't keep up with anything. Try driving it hard for a longer period of time it runs out of power, even faster if you have air-conditioning.

Tesla is the greatest scam in the automotive industry.

[SenorFunkyPants]

It looked like the BMW was a bit of a handful under braking but at least it didn't look as rolly polly as the Audi in corners. I thought the Tesla looked the best of the three, it definitely looked the more composed. Not driven one so it could be a bag of crap in real world driving. I wouldn't want any of them though...and the BMW least of all.

[derryck]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't think it credits the BMW, but rather it discredits the Tesla. For having an acceleration that can keep up with even hypercars, the Tesla is really slow. But that is the whole Tesla marketing stunt. The car is only fast @ 0-100 km/h acceleration test, all above it can't keep up with anything. Try driving it hard for a longer period of time it runs out of power, even faster if you have air-conditioning.

Tesla is the greatest scam in the automotive industry.

Lol...you know it's not really a performance car right? It's intended to be a 'green' vehicle...just happens to have buckets of torque on tap instantly. That Elon Musk is a real idiot eh...PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, Stripe...

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't think it credits the BMW, but rather it discredits the Tesla. For having an acceleration that can keep up with even hypercars, the Tesla is really slow. But that is the whole Tesla marketing stunt. The car is only fast @ 0-100 km/h acceleration test, all above it can't keep up with anything. Try driving it hard for a longer period of time it runs out of power, even faster if you have air-conditioning.

Tesla is the greatest scam in the automotive industry.

Scam? Them telling everyone that its the quickest accelerating sedan? Ok maybe they forgot to say to 60 but how else are they marketing it? They have never considered the car a performance car. As said before, its an electric motor. It has instant power unlike a combustion engine that has to get some revs before it starts to make power. It started as a long range, 100% electric vehicle and grew into being very fast from 0-60.

Oh and the video showed the heavy ass Tesla doing quite well around that small track, no?

I still can not grip all this Tesla hate. They are pioneering the way to the future of 100% electric vehicles.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I still can not grip all this Tesla hate. They are pioneering the way to the future of 100% electric vehicles.

It's similar to Apple hate. It's directly in proportion to the fanboy love/enthusiasm/obsession both companies get. I like what Tesla is doing and if you just stay objective it all makes sense. It's those who get all emotional who love it or hate it. Still not convinced a pure electric car is the future. I still think of it as a stop gap until hydrogen or something similar is ready for primetime.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by OneRib

I still think of it as a stop gap until hydrogen or something similar is ready for primetime.

Battery density continues to increase and the infrastructure for extracting/making, transporting, and storing hydrogen simply doesn't exist. With electric, the infrastructure exists, even if it's not capable of supporting it on the level that would allow electric to be used by everyone all the time. It's still miles ahead in that respect, and then there's the fact that making electricity, even by burning fossil fuel in a modern gas-turbine plant, and sending that electricity to an electric car, is still more efficient than you can achieve with a combustion engine. That's energy that's going directly to powering the car, rather than being used to extract or make hydrogen, and then using that to power the car, which is like spending 2x for the same thing. If you are talking hydrogen fuel cells, most of the same issues still apply and a hyper-efficient diesel or similar powerplant in a hybrid format for recharge or limited heavy-load is probably far more likely, all the while battery and electronic technology will be improving.

Hope this doesn't start an argument, but I just don't see fuel cells ever really taking off. It's one thing to see a car powered by them IMO, but another to have the gas station network, the truck shipping, the storage facilities, the boats, the production facilities, etc.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Battery density continues to increase and the infrastructure for extracting/making, transporting, and storing hydrogen simply doesn't exist. With electric, the infrastructure exists, even if it's not capable of supporting it on the level that would allow electric to be used by everyone all the time. It's still miles ahead in that respect, and then there's the fact that making electricity, even by burning fossil fuel in a modern gas-turbine plant, and sending that electricity to an electric car, is still more efficient than you can achieve with a combustion engine. That's energy that's going directly to powering the car, rather than being used to extract or make hydrogen, and then using that to power the car, which is like spending 2x for the same thing. If you are talking hydrogen fuel cells, most of the same issues still apply and a hyper-efficient diesel or similar powerplant in a hybrid format for recharge or limited heavy-load is probably far more likely, all the while battery and electronic technology will be improving.

Hope this doesn't start an argument, but I just don't see fuel cells ever really taking off. It's one thing to see a car powered by them IMO, but another to have the gas station network, the truck shipping, the storage facilities, the boats, the production facilities, etc.

No argument from me. All true points. We may not see hydrogen ever or it may take decades. Just not sure electric will be the permanent solution. I should have been clearer. I do think the key to electric is the battery density (you mentioned this), recharge time, and capacity.
Under repeated high stress situations, combustion still trounces electric. Also the power grid is not ready for all electric vehicles.

There also needs to be an answer for battery production and disposal. When you take current levels and raise the scale to almost all vehicles, I wonder if the energy savings and environmental aspect still hold.

Of course the solution may be none of the above. This discussion may be going about the problem all wrong.
Imagine before cars listening to people discuss using camels instead of horses for transportation because they were more durable, ate less, drank less, and stronger (all made up points, I have no idea if camels offer any advantages). Then some crazy lunatic comes up with the gas combustion driven car. We could all be years way from seeing some new type of transportation that blows cars away.

But for now, we can all enjoy the explosion of electric, the golden age of combustion, and the birth of the performance hybrid. These two techs are going to force the best of each other.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't think it credits the BMW, but rather it discredits the Tesla. For having an acceleration that can keep up with even hypercars, the Tesla is really slow. But that is the whole Tesla marketing stunt. The car is only fast @ 0-100 km/h acceleration test, all above it can't keep up with anything. Try driving it hard for a longer period of time it runs out of power, even faster if you have air-conditioning.

Tesla is the greatest scam in the automotive industry.

100% correct.

[Fundguy1]

Most testing have the Porsche pannamerica right there. Tesla at 3.2, porsche 3.2. 0-60, tesla 11.6 quarter, porsChe 11.8. Then porsche pulls away. If you are moving porsche kills it. And after an hour it doesn't have to sit for a day before you can drive home.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by OneRib

No argument from me. All true points. We may not see hydrogen ever or it may take decades. Just not sure electric will be the permanent solution. I should have been clearer. I do think the key to electric is the battery density (you mentioned this), recharge time, and capacity.
Under repeated high stress situations, combustion still trounces electric. Also the power grid is not ready for all electric vehicles.

There also needs to be an answer for battery production and disposal. When you take current levels and raise the scale to almost all vehicles, I wonder if the energy savings and environmental aspect still hold.

Of course the solution may be none of the above. This discussion may be going about the problem all wrong.
Imagine before cars listening to people discuss using camels instead of horses for transportation because they were more durable, ate less, drank less, and stronger (all made up points, I have no idea if camels offer any advantages). Then some crazy lunatic comes up with the gas combustion driven car. We could all be years way from seeing some new type of transportation that blows cars away.

But for now, we can all enjoy the explosion of electric, the golden age of combustion, and the birth of the performance hybrid. These two techs are going to force the best of each other.

Answer to a question that doesn't need to be asked. Hydrogen isn't going to be feasible for decades. True electrics now are still 10 yes from being competitive. And neither is necessary for our lifetimes.
Battery production is does than disposal pollution wise. Carbon emissions affecting the environment is dubious at best. Battery prodiction and disposal ape true environmental nightmares making love canal look like a picnic area for preschoolers. Range sick. Refueling sucjs. And if you're still worried about carbon emissions stop eating beef. Way more carbon emissions from your hamburgers than from your car. Yeah that's gonna happen.
By the way, someone tell AL Gore that I live in Florida and the experts in his movie said I'd be underwater by now.

[BMW269]