BMW M Electrified - Episode 1. The Next Level of Driving Dynamics [BMW M Video]

[VR1]

Absolutely hilarious thread

[kamendex]

Originally Posted by ///Avera

Seems you are not aware the European economy and car markets alike are plummeting into crisis . . . in countries like Germany, things are particularly bad and the economy is tied directly to the auto industry

CONSUMERS dictate the market, not politicians . . . and the consumer does not want anything to do with environmental catastrophes we call EVs

And, yes, you better believe what decisions and policies made in the U.S. drive those made in Europe . . . the petro dollar is still king

Your emotional attachment to an agenda has you tapped out . . . resorting to frivolous and unrelated commentary on my providing signature to a comment

Like I said, time to get a helmet . . . the road forward is going to be bumpy for you

///Avera

Avera you are a dumbass, stop lecturing people on things you barely understand. The car markets in the US and EU are struggling for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with what you are explaining.

Inflation and high interest rates are impacting consumers wallets in the USA and Europe. EVs made by the Chinese are the vehicle of choice in China further reducing the profits of US and EU companies in that region.

You have no idea what you’re talking about and the more you type the more I realize you are probably some geriatric moron who thinks everyone he disagrees with is the opposing political party.

[brianeck]

As long as they put 2 feet in either door. . . PHEV is not the best of either world. You wanna make a "lightweight" electric only car? Would be a blast in a Z4 platform for sure. Go ahead and dump it into the SUVs that are heavy anyway, as the battery weight will lower their center of gravity. Offer a FULL ICE and electric M3/M4 variant? That sounds amazing.

Please stop adding 1000 LBS to cars by trying to do both electric and ICE in the same vehicle, its ridiculous.

[somer]

best of luck to the buyers!

[ynguldyn]

Is there any space left on the internet that crypto bros celebrating Trump still haven't invaded?

[Tim_M56]

I hope that the next BMW M sports sedan that is electric manages to keep the weight in check. I understand that batteries are heavier than an ICE powertrain, but to make it nimble within reason, the weight has to be managed. I mean, if Tesla can keep the Model 3 around 3800-3900, I think BMW can do it as well. Not like the land yacht G90 M5.

[Custom Install]

I have the outdated iPhone 12 Pro, I won’t change it unless it stops working or something offering a totally different experience comes along.
It’s all the phone I’ll ever need.
I feel that way about my G82x, it’s exactly the same.
If it broke and BMW told me I’d have to take the latest model cause they couldn’t fix it, I’d probably end up loving ID 8.5 over ID 7 in the end. But it’s not enough on its own, or any of the other LCI upgrades to make me trade in.

But an all electric, quad motor M…

Might have to consider that.

[harperium]

The most interesting part, to me, is the single CPU controlling driving dynamics. They should put that in the ICE M3! I think most of the magic is in this new CPU system.

[lcasale]

[QUOTE=techwhiz1;31693330]

Originally Posted by GearRex

Lease, lease, lease. NEVER buy an electric car.

The battery technology will improve, and we have a long way to go until it matures. Every new generation will be better than the last, making the new ones more desirable, and for those who bought their cars, the used car values will tank every time, and no one will want to buy used ones as long as new ones are being subsidized, and the tech is much improved.
————————————————-

Well, buying an EV has advantages even though technology will improve. You could argue the same thing for ICE where gas mileage and performance improves.

I leased a Fiat 500e then a Chevy Bolt; both for my daughter. The latest Bolt we bought because the purchase price was better than buying the previous car off lease.

Battery technology has not changed in the last 8 years or so. Or at least not dramatically. We are all on the edge of our seats waiting for solid state battery anode issues to be resolved.

Even if they announce a fix in a laboratory; it's 4-6 years for commercialization and scaling for volume.

So that will be more than a decade with roughly the same battery tech.

My i4 isn't going to stop being a decent car when technology changes.

As someone working in the technology sector for 35+ years; if you wait for the next innovation, you will never stop waiting.

I always thought the concern was every current lithium ion battery tech has a fixed shelf life and the cost to replace would be way more than the car is worth. Curious how many 10+ year old i4's we'll see still going in the future.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

M4 will be no more when the current model ends production

It will be the M2 and the M3 if you prefer 4 doors

I seriously doubt the i4 will disappear

There was a rumor over a year ago that the 6 series would return once the 4 series/M4 and 8 series/M8 coupe and convertible were not renewed for the next production cycle. If not it would be sad for BMW going to mostly 4 door vehicles.

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I am personally looking forward to my first drive in the quad e motor ///M

It’s going to be absolutely epic… I have zero doubt in my mind

Then it would take 4 times the amount of time to charge compared to a ICE vehicle. And don’t forget to change the tires due to the weight.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Then it would take 4 times the amount of time to charge compared to a ICE vehicle. And don’t forget to change the tires due to the weight.

I just charge it like I do my cellphone it’s ready to go by morning…

Or I go to a destination-supercharger and get myself something to eat and take a break and then it’s charged by the time I’m done w/eating or whatever I stopped to do

They are making tires for EV’s now…
I’ve been running ZR rated all seasons for years on my commuting appliances without much issue and they perform fantastic

Buying tires is a small price to pay when you don’t have to pay for maintenance you don’t have to buy brakes or ⛽️ gas etc. etc.

[therealm3]

I have been a bmw fan boy since the 80’s when I saw my first e30 m3. I love and appreciate ICE for what it is, but we are now on our 4th ev and it is just better technology. Yes, there are use cases where ICE or hybrid makes more sense and will continue to do so for many years to come till the development catches up for batteries.

All this hatred and non sense about pry my gas car out of my cold dead hands is just classic near sighted “get off my lawn” mentality. For those who are old enough to remember, this is hilariously similar to the late 90’s when HD tvs were coming up and the government made a line in the sand for when everyone had to switch. Oh the uproar about it. Hahaha. Now, raise your hand if you want a giant box 4:3, 480i tv? Right. No one does. And the same arguments then:too expensive, mine I have now works fine, blah, blah, blah. Industry figured out how to make them better and cheaper. Same thing will happen here. In 20 years when solid state, 800v (or more) is the norm, and infrastructure is in place; no one is going to be talking about how ICE is awesome.

As much as I am all for free market and letting the demand decide, stuff like this has to be pushed. Humans become curmudgeons and do not like change even when it is for the better. We are in the infancy of evs and it absolutely will be better, but without a push now to keep the development cycle going, the tech won’t mature quickly.

Oh and for those who haven’t clicked on,
Man do I wish my i4 m50 had the fenders and front end of the test mule. Also, the M2 in the video: I know a guy who works in the industry and four years or so ago told me BMW R and D had taken an f87 and put three electric motors in it to see what kind of performance they could get. I am guessing it is that test car in the video.

[Wills2]

It will be interesting to see what they produce.

For me in the UK the opportunity to use the power of a normal ICE M car is fleeting, so giving one even more say 800hp+ would be a waste of time, our roads are so crowded, filled with speed cameras and dash cams (people send in footage to the police) not to mention pot holed and speed bump riddled surfaces that it would be like having a super model GF that you can't have sex with.

I looked to see how many Taycan GT's they had sold in the UK so far...2.

Out in the vastness of the US, yes I can imagine an EV M3 would be a hoot.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by therealm3

I have been a bmw fan boy since the 80’s when I saw my first e30 m3. I love and appreciate ICE for what it is, but we are now on our 4th ev and it is just better technology. Yes, there are use cases where ICE or hybrid makes more sense and will continue to do so for many years to come till the development catches up for batteries.

*Snip*

Oh and for those who haven’t clicked on,
Man do I wish my i4 m50 had the fenders and front end of the test mule. Also, the M2 in the video: I know a guy [...]

I wholeheartedly agree.
My trek with BMWs started when my older brother bought a 1980 320i and then my sister bought a 2002. I have owned multiple M cars and I love BMW oerformance.

That being said.
We are now owners of 3 EVs and one hybrid. We still have an X5 and a Mini with a 6 speed.
One of those EVs is an i4 M50

But not having to really deal with maintenance, except for tires and wipers for 100k miles is a big deal.

I crossed shopped an M3 and the i4 M50.
Like you, I wish the i4 M50 had the fenders and more aggressive stance. The i4 just doesn't have the visceral feel of an ICE 6 speed, but will blow the doors of most ICE up to 130 MPH.

In the Euro market it is treated like a real M car including M sport seats. I retrofitted M sport seats in my i4.

Anyway, I think EV has its place, but also ICE.
Charging in the middle of nowhere just doesn't work, but you can haul gas just about anywhere and you can make methanol or other alcohol fuels out of anything that ferments. So EVs in the middle of Africa, South America, etc just are not practical.

Anyway I love my i4 but for the sake of getting an ICE car with a MT I have an M2 on order.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Tim_M56

I hope that the next BMW M sports sedan that is electric manages to keep the weight in check. I understand that batteries are heavier than an ICE powertrain, but to make it nimble within reason, the weight has to be managed. I mean, if Tesla can keep the Model 3 around 3800-3900, I think BMW can do it as well. Not like the land yacht G90 M5.

There is a reason why the i4 M50 weighs 5000 pounds and a TM3 weighs a lot less. Build Quality.

A TM3 is a cracker box compared to an i4.
They save weight by getting rid of everything and making it minimalist. There is a reason why the i4 is quiet and has better noise isolation than a a TM3.

BMW does a lot more to protect the drivetrain and batteries than Tesla. BMW also does not bolt anything from the top to the battery pack. Tesla also uses a non-repairable casting in the front and rear which makes an accident that involves the suspension a total loss or minimally an expensive repair.

A comparison of material quality in a BMW and Tesla yields a stark difference. Could BWW build a car like a TM3? Sure, but it wouldn't be a BMW anyone that loves BMWs would want.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by brianeck

As long as they put 2 feet in either door. . . PHEV is not the best of either world. You wanna make a "lightweight" electric only car? Would be a blast in a Z4 platform for sure. Go ahead and dump it into the SUVs that are heavy anyway, as the battery weight will lower their center of gravity. Offer a FULL ICE and electric M3/M4 variant? That sounds amazing.

Please stop adding 1000 LBS to cars by trying to do both electric and ICE in the same vehicle, its ridiculous.

That is not why the car weighs more. All you need to do is look at the iX which is a BEV only platform. You want all the luxury in a BMW? It costs in weight.

An i4 has 1100lb or so battery pack.
Why does it weigh so much? Because it's protected and serviceable.

You want adaptive suspension? Weight.
You want a gauge cluster in your face? Weight

The i4 is also structurally rigid and to compare the build of a BMW to a Tesla is the ultimate in humor. There is a reason why lemforder has a full line of Tesla replacement suspension parts.

A TM3 weighs about 4000lbs
A TMY weighs about 4700lbs
A TMS wights about 4700lbs

The only relatively lightweight Tesla is a TM3.

You want lighter EVs? Battery developments in higher energy density is where we will see weight reduction.

[GrinchSpec]

So they will make an electric version for the G8X gen?

[q2w3e4r5t]

Originally Posted by JMD

You know, a little less than 100 years ago,...some Farmers never experience working his fields with Mules,...just as just over 100 years ago, some Farmers never experienced working their fields with a mechanical contraption called a Tractor!

One of my grandfathers was a farmer. When working in the field he would send the horse pulling a loaded cart and the German shepherd home. They'd get there just fine on their own (the horse could do this part without the dog), after unloading at the farm, they'd go back to the field (this needed the dog as the horse would not do it without the dog).

Had he had a tractor: he'd have to drive it back and forth himself or send one of the farm hands to do it for him. So my grandfather fought tooth and nail against getting a tractor. He saw drawbacks we've long forgotten about.

But self-driving farm equipment is on the agenda now once again as it is indeed really, really handy in some situations as my grandfather pointed out.

TL;DR: Sometimes some of us see something as progress, but others see what they'd lose. Both are right. It's only long after all of us moved on that we'll agree. And sometimes those things we lose in the process will be missed in the long run and come back in somewhat changed form.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Not really a comparison. M3P costs about half the price of the M3 and it caters to a different audience. Its like asking why the BMW 3 series is losing out to a Corolla. I dont think EV’s can be the sole car at this stage esp in the US where distances are long and charging infrastructure is not great. Almost all of us who own an EV prob have an ICE back up in their garages. Maybe in 5-10 yrs that might change. But trying to force everyone to adopt the EV will backfire and companies are now slowing down the transition and trying to offer hybrids and keep ICE going to make sure everyone gets what they want. Its one of the reason EV adoption has tanked a people are not confidant that an EV will work for them at the current time. The only reason the M5 has battery is to comply with the German govt regulations. How much it helps save pollution and the environment is out there. So in paper it complies with the mandate but really doesnt do much for the environment.

Actually wasnt the itention to flare up a fight of M3 vs Model3P. Its just after listening to Camisas review of the two, I kind of get it where he is coming from and how far back BMW is on certain points vs Model 3 that in the past it made it a clear winner. And today it isn't. the point of fake noise from speakers as a "plus" and Tesla being "silent" as a minus, or the driving dynamics as commented on by pros claiming Model 3 P is so much better than it used to be makes one think.

I dont have a horse in the race, if anything I was true to my criticism of BMW styling and where it has gone with quality, and sold them. I only have an analog-ish 911 today, and Im looking to buy an EV as a counter - but I do like G8x for the pure stupid muscle car that it is. But as a daily it doesnt work for me. So I dunno, remain on the fence for smth better for now.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by Tallest

Actually wasnt the itention to flare up a fight of M3 vs Model3P. Its just after listening to Camisas review of the two, I kind of get it where he is coming from and how far back BMW is on certain points vs Model 3 that in the past it made it a clear winner. And today it isn't. the point of fake noise from speakers as a "plus" and Tesla being "silent" as a minus, or the driving dynamics as commented on by pros claiming Model 3 P is so much better than it used to be makes one think.

I dont have a horse in the race, if anything I was true to my criticism of BMW styling and where it has gone with quality, and sold them. I only have an analog-ish 911 today, and Im looking to buy an EV as a counter - but I do like G8x for the pure stupid muscle car that it is. But as a daily it doesnt work for me. So I dunno, remain on the fence for smth better for now.

No worries. I think the M3 can be a good DD if you overlook certain quirks. Just took my M3 to work today and did about 50 miles so far in a combination of street and hwy. The car drives OK in slower traffic but is asking to be pushed which isnt good if the cops are around....lol. I think I got used the the revv hang and only drive in D1 on city streets and D2/D3 on the hwy which have higher revvs. Eventhough I just got the IX last month and have put about 1000 miles on it and it drives so well and is seamless when it picks up speed and drives like Im on a cloud. But I miss driving my M3 and dont know why, every time Im in one I cant wait to let it rip when I get a chance on open roads even though Im sure the IX can do the same but never felt the need to do it. So if you are still on the fence for a DD, take a test drive on a M3 and drive both city and hwy and you can see for yourself. But its only worth it if you wanna push it sometimes as its not meant to be reigned in for too long. Cheers !!!

[Drew10]

I heard talk about reinforcing subframes #NotGoingBack

[ASAP]

just a wild guess here -

bmw built a much heavier tesla model 3 performance with a slightly more advanced traction control system, better steering and diff software and is charging double... lol... tell you what... truly an innovative crowd there lol