Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by kyriian

And who can afford this? If and when it ever actually becomes reality?

We need more sugar daddy and sugar mommy

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've not researched the details, but it is indicated the average US light duty automotive retail transaction price is $48,760. What is not said is what makes up the number. Is it the MSRP average of every model available in the US (or Canada for your numbers) or is that total price spent by consumers divided by the number of cars bought. If EV are included in the average, then a comparison of how close EV MSRP are to ICEV is invalid because the higher prices of EV are skewing the average higher. A loose observation of the market shows there are far more inexpensive ICEV models on the low end vs. expensive EV models on the high end.

The better comparison is ICEV/EV MSRP between models in the same segment of the market. Again, a loose observation of the market indicates ICEV MSRP are on the order of $5,000 - $15,000 less expensive. For example, the base model Camry (LE) is $27,515 vs. the base model Tesla Model 3 at $41,630 (no longer eligible for a tax credit). So, the least expensive Camry is $14,115 less than the least expensive Model 3. Doing some simple math with internet-sourced (AAA) numbers for maintenance cost per mile for EV (3 cents) and ICEV (9 cents) and national average gas cost of $3.10 (AAA for this week) and the Camry's 32 average MPG, the payback (breakeven point) is 55,400 miles.

And that's simple math that doesn't include the cost to fuel the Tesla. The cost to fuel the Tesla for 55,400 miles (@3 cents per mile from Fueleconomy.gov) adds an additional 22,000 miles to the payback, making the total payback at 77,400 miles.

There is simply no cost parity between EV and ICE. Most normal cost-conscious budget-minded people understand this and it is why EV sales are slowing. Add in the PITA it is to charge an EV off-site from home and the 20% to 50% range cut for cold weather use, most normal people see zero advantage to owning EV. People generally like paying more for better performance rather than paying more for less performance.

And people forgot to factor in the time that they waste on waiting for charging their EVs. Time is money. For me, time is so valuable and you can't even meausre it with money

[eugenebmw]

Repost from another discussion group

EVs are banned to parked in major hospitals in Victoria Australia. One very interesting feedback. "How about parking these EV cars under parliament? We will see how the MPs like a taste of their own policies"

[Car-Addicted]

Common sense bomb in a world so short on common sense.

[Car-Addicted]

The electric vehicle fiasco has become dangerous
Fri, January 26, 2024
When Sadiq Khan promised to clean up London’s air by introducing electric buses, did he factor in the black smoke which poured out of the Number 265 as it burst into flames in Putney on Wednesday?
That followed two very similar fires in the past fortnight which consumed vehicles from the same fleet. Paris has already had to withdraw a fleet of electric buses after a couple of fires, while in Venice-Mestre last October 21 people died after an electric bus caught fire and plunged off a flyover.
The “race to net zero”, as the politicians like to describe it, isn’t just expensive; it is dangerous.
But when electric vehicles catch fire they can be a lot harder to put out due to “thermal runaway” where one overheating cell leads to the neighbouring cell, setting off a chain reaction.
With buses, the problem is even bigger than in cars because the batteries are necessarily larger. The fires can’t be tackled in the same way as petrol or diesel vehicle fires, and vehicles are in some cases being left to burn themselves out.
Khan has promised to make all buses in London zero emission by 2037. But how is he going to get there when it looks as if he may well have to withdraw an entire fleet of 380 buses? If he doesn’t take these buses out of service, I fear he may find himself short of passengers willing to take the risk. Khan is a great one for ramping up public fear when it comes to air pollution. A better definition of a crisis, I think, is a sudden and acute problem – like spontaneously-combusting buses.
https://news.yahoo.com/electric-vehi...2fSC_feXHuMKUA

Lots of truth here.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The electric vehicle fiasco has become dangerous
Fri, January 26, 2024
When Sadiq Khan promised to clean up London’s air by introducing electric buses, did he factor in the black smoke which poured out of the Number 265 as it burst into flames in Putney on Wednesday?
That followed two very similar fires in the past fortnight which consumed vehicles from the same fleet. Paris has already had to withdraw a fleet of electric buses after a couple of fires, while in Venice-Mestre last October 21 people died after an electric bus caught fire and plunged off a flyover.
The “race to net zero”, as the politicians like to describe it, isn’t just expensive; it is dangerous.
But when electric vehicles catch fire they can be a lot harder to put out due to “thermal runaway” where one overheating cell leads to the neighbouring cell, setting off a chain reaction.
With buses, the problem is even bigger than in cars because the batteries are necessarily larger. The fires can’t be tackled in the same way as petrol or diesel vehicle fires, and vehicles are in some cases being left to burn themselves out.
Khan has promised to make all buses in London zero emission by 2037. But how is he going to get there when it looks as if he may well have to withdraw an entire fleet of 380 buses? If he doesn’t take these buses out of service, I fear he may find himself short of passengers willing to take the risk. Khan is a great one for ramping up public fear when it comes to air pollution. A better definition of a crisis, I think, is a sudden and acute problem – like spontaneously-combusting buses.
https://news.yahoo.com/electric-vehi...2fSC_feXHuMKUA

Lots of truth here.

The man is a raisin short of a fruitcake.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The man is a raisin short of a fruitcake.

I trust you are talking about Sadiq Khan?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I trust you are talking about Sadiq Khan?

What do you think

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The man is a raisin short of a fruitcake.

Is it a compliment ??

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Really? No comment on the 1000 mile range EV? Makes me think this thread really isn’t about EVs. :/

I was going to engage yesterday but didn't have bandwidth in my day. So, it is an engineering development model to prove a 100kWh can achieve a 600 mile range. Okay, so it did that. But how close is the architecture to a production sedan that needs to meet stringent safety regulations and meet durability requirements. I didn't see every moment of the video, I'll re-look at it later this evening. I was looking for what the car's heating performance is and it's AC performance. The test engineer did discuss it some. The car had no heated seats/steering wheel and had a heat pump using collected waste heat from the 240 HP electric motor. Are those systems real-world rated? I'd bet not; probably designed for minimum driver comfort to achieve the 1000km goal.

It was impressive that it loses just 5% energy from cell-to-roadwheel.

[ad111]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Repost from another discussion group

EVs are banned to parked in major hospitals in Victoria Australia. One very interesting feedback. "How about parking these EV cars under parliament? We will see how the MPs like a taste of their own policies"

according to the pro-EV posters ITT the fire risk is hyperbolic nonsense. i guess the video above is just a distraction...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ad111

according to the pro-EV posters ITT the fire risk is hyperbolic nonsense. i guess the video above is just a distraction...

'I see nothing, it's just lies', is normal from that faction.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

'I see nothing, it's just lies', is normal from that faction.

I maybe wrong, I try to be moderate and I suspect that the risk for fire isn't as high as some are suggesting, but I also think the risk of fire and then the level of devastation from the fire is much higher than a lot want us to believe.

[Car-Addicted]

In the case of fire on public buses the issue isn't the fire, it's the stupid politicians and bureaucrats that spend million of dollars of tax payer money on an unproven technology to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Sooner or later there will be a loss of life.
As for the fires being low occurrence, yes but remember these cars are currently top end construction and owned but people who have multiple vehicles and a house hold income above $100,000.00. When this EV's find themselves in a secondary market, with high mileage and worse maintenance and the end of battery life, smart money says this become far more common. remember there are no small EV fires and few fire departments are prepared to handle them.

[Car-Addicted]

Electric Car Demographics: 34 Buyer Facts
As electric vehicles (EVs) gain popularity, it’s essential to understand the demographics of their adopters.
Quick Facts About Electric Car Demographics

Majorities of Gen Z (56%) and Millennial (57%) adults favor phasing out production of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035.
45% of Gen X and 38% of Baby Boomers and older Americans favor phasing out production of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035.
Over a quarter of EV buyers are aged 35-49.
40% of EV buyers are aged 18-34.
68% of EV buyers are men vs. 32% of EV buyers are women.
44% of EV-interested consumers identify as Democrats, while 23% say they are Republicans.
In the fourth quarter of 2021, electrified vehicles accounted for 11.8% of total vehicle sales in the US.
Higher-income households (earning over $100,000 annually) account for 56% of EV owners in the United States.
Only 4% of EV owners in the U.S. have a household income of under $25,000 per year.
Urban dwellers, who make up about 81% of the U.S. population, account for 83% of EV owners.
Approximately 29% of EV owners have a postgraduate degree, while only 18% of the general population holds one.
In a U.S. survey, 74% of EV owners stated that environmental concerns were a primary motivation for purchasing an EV.
Government incentives, such as the U.S. federal tax credit of up to $7,500, have a significant impact on EV adoption rates.
80% of EV charging in the U.S. occurs at home, making access to home charging infrastructure crucial for adoption.
Range anxiety persists, with 58% of potential EV buyers in the U.S. citing it as a top concern.
https://motorandwheels.com/electric-car-demographics/

As an educated red neck this seems like a group I would prefer to avoid.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Electric Car Demographics: 34 Buyer Facts
As electric vehicles (EVs) gain popularity, it’s essential to understand the demographics of their adopters.
Quick Facts About Electric Car Demographics

Majorities of Gen Z (56%) and Millennial (57%) adults favor phasing out production of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035.
45% of Gen X and 38% of Baby Boomers and older Americans favor phasing out production of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035.
Over a quarter of EV buyers are aged 35-49.
40% of EV buyers are aged 18-34.
68% of EV buyers are men vs. 32% of EV buyers are women.
44% of EV-interested consumers identify as Democrats, while 23% say they are Republicans.
In the fourth quarter of 2021, electrified vehicles accounted for 11.8% of total vehicle sales in the US.
Higher-income households (earning over $100,000 annually) account for 56% of EV owners in the United States.
Only 4% of EV owners in the U.S. have a household income of under $25,000 per year.
Urban dwellers, who make up about 81% of the U.S. population, account for 83% of EV owners.
Approximately 29% of EV owners have a postgraduate degree, while only 18% of the general population holds one.
In a U.S. survey, 74% of EV owners stated that environmental concerns were a primary motivation for purchasing an EV.
Government incentives, such as the U.S. federal tax credit of up to $7,500, have a significant impact on EV adoption rates.
80% of EV charging in the U.S. occurs at home, making access to home charging infrastructure crucial for adoption.
Range anxiety persists, with 58% of potential EV buyers in the U.S. citing it as a top concern.
https://motorandwheels.com/electric-car-demographics/

As an educated red neck this seems like a group I would prefer to avoid.

This is why I'm worried my retirement portfolio is not going to be sufficient to keep me fed and from sleeping out in the rain.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is why I'm worried my retirement portfolio is not going to be sufficient to keep me fed and from sleeping out in the rain.

In a unrelated study: 74% of people are idiots.

While we are on the subject of polls:
New poll reveals staggering number of Americans unlikely to buy electric cars
1/22/24
A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports revealed that 65 percent of American adults are unlikely to consider purchasing an electric vehicle (EV) for their next car.
This sentiment is particularly strong among working and lower-middle class individuals, with over 70 percent in the $30,000 to $50,000 income bracket expressing disinterest in buying an EV.
The survey also highlighted that EVs are more appealing to wealthier individuals, as 52 percent of those earning at least $200,000 are likely to consider purchasing an EV.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...rs/ar-BB1h5iCq

Not the educated Red Neck demographics

[Car-Addicted]

The Green Grift rolls on. Long read but worth the time.
The Rooftop Solar Industry Could Be On the Verge of Collapse
January 25, 2024
Angry customers aren’t the only reason the solar industry is in trouble. Some of the nation’s biggest public solar companies are struggling to stay afloat as questions arise over the viability of the financial products they sold to both consumers and investors to fund their growing operations.
Still, the residential solar industry is floundering. In late 2023 alone, more than 100 residential solar dealers and installers in the U.S. declared bankruptcy, according to Roth Capital Partners—six times the number in the previous three years combined. Roth expects at least 100 more to fail. The two largest companies in the industry, SunRun and Sunnova, both posted big losses in their most recent quarterly reports, and their shares are down 86% and 81% respectively from their peaks in January 2021.
Another solar giant, SunPower, saw shares plunge 41% on Dec. 18 after it said that it may not be able to continue to operate because of debt issues. Sunlight Financial, a big player in the solar finance space, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in October; it also faces a lawsuit alleging that the company made false and misleading statements about its financial well-being.
At the root of these struggles is the complicated financial engineering that helped companies raise money but that some investors and analysts say was built on a framework of lies—or at least exaggerations.
After growing 31% in 2021 and 40% in 2022, residential solar will only grow by 13% in 2023 and then contract 12% in 2024
SunRun itself has disclosed in investor filings that it is in the midst of an IRS audit. One Wall Street analyst, Gordon Johnson, alleges that SunRun has claimed $40 billion in tax subsidies it didn’t deserve, and calls this “the biggest tax fraud in the history of the U.S.”
California alone lost 17,000 solar jobs in 2023, according to the California Solar and Storage Association.
https://time.com/6565415/rooftop-sol...stry-collapse/

A few folks getting rich off the misrepresentation of an non existent threat. The climate thefts keeps rolling on.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

In a unrelated study: 74% of people are idiots.

While we are on the subject of polls:
New poll reveals staggering number of Americans unlikely to buy electric cars
1/22/24
A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports revealed that 65 percent of American adults are unlikely to consider purchasing an electric vehicle (EV) for their next car.
This sentiment is particularly strong among working and lower-middle class individuals, with over 70 percent in the $30,000 to $50,000 income bracket expressing disinterest in buying an EV.
The survey also highlighted that EVs are more appealing to wealthier individuals, as 52 percent of those earning at least $200,000 are likely to consider purchasing an EV.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...rs/ar-BB1h5iCq

Not the educated Red Neck demographics

That's what it boils down to, it's mainly a well off peoples choice to add an EV to their gas cars in large properties, while for the ones you mention in the lower middle brackets it makes little sense with everything to do with an EV taken into account, add tax squeeze and the cost of living to top it.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The Green Grift rolls on. Long read but worth the time.
The Rooftop Solar Industry Could Be On the Verge of Collapse
January 25, 2024
Angry customers aren’t the only reason the solar industry is in trouble. Some of the nation’s biggest public solar companies are struggling to stay afloat as questions arise over the viability of the financial products they sold to both consumers and investors to fund their growing operations.
Still, the residential solar industry is floundering. In late 2023 alone, more than 100 residential solar dealers and installers in the U.S. declared bankruptcy, according to Roth Capital Partners—six times the number in the previous three years combined. Roth expects at least 100 more to fail. The two largest companies in the industry, SunRun and Sunnova, both posted big losses in their most recent quarterly reports, and their shares are down 86% and 81% respectively from their peaks in January 2021.
Another solar giant, SunPower, saw shares plunge 41% on Dec. 18 after it said that it may not be able to continue to operate because of debt issues. Sunlight Financial, a big player in the solar finance space, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in October; it also faces a lawsuit alleging that the company made false and misleading statements about its financial well-being.
At the root of these struggles is the complicated financial engineering that helped companies raise money but that some investors and analysts say was built on a framework of lies—or at least exaggerations.
After growing 31% in 2021 and 40% in 2022, residential solar will only grow by 13% in 2023 and then contract 12% in 2024
SunRun itself has disclosed in investor filings that it is in the midst of an IRS audit. One Wall Street analyst, Gordon Johnson, alleges that SunRun has claimed $40 billion in tax subsidies it didn’t deserve, and calls this “the biggest tax fraud in the history of the U.S.”
California alone lost 17,000 solar jobs in 2023, according to the California Solar and Storage Association.
https://time.com/6565415/rooftop-sol...stry-collapse/

A few folks getting rich off the misrepresentation of an non existent threat. The climate thefts keeps rolling on.

Solar appeals to me for non-environmental reasons. My house is oriented poorly for solar. I would have to do a solar roof instead of panels. So I am not pulling the trigger on that yet.

Are you against solar as always a grift? Combined with a couple of Tesla Powerwalls it would be great especially during outages.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Solar appeals to me for non-environmental reasons. My house is oriented poorly for solar. I would have to do a solar roof instead of panels. So I am not pulling the trigger on that yet.

Are you against solar as always a grift? Combined with a couple of Tesla Powerwalls it would be great especially during outages.

I'm not interested in using solar to power my home and go off grid, I don't know that the cost would be recovered but as a back up system to cover us during outages has some appeal.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I'm not interested in using solar to power my home and go off grid, I don't know that the cost would be recovered but as a back up system to cover us during outages has some appeal.

As a back up is the main interest for me. I don’t have to have it break even on cost quickly. But, it’s outside my comfort level on cost right now.