Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS
Thank you! Some of my comments on the GT3 is in this thread starting with post #68: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1019409&page=4
And my first review of the F8x that includes some comparisons are here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=999575
I don't think I am yet qualified to compare the F8x to any Porsche from a track perspective, I am quite far off the M4s capabilities still. However, I'll add few thoughts: I have a renewed appreciation on how easy it is to work on Porsches compared to Bimmers, and believe me, for me it has been less costly to maintain a Porsche than a BMW thus far.
I still maintain though the M4 is a bargain. I believe we are getting about 80% of the performance that a 997 or 991 GT3 offers at 50% price discount, and to me that is a bargain. As long as one can accept the fact that the 20% gap cannot be eliminated in any way, can be narrowed, but not eliminated. With the use I get from the M4, that gap is not important to me; however, for people that have never had it and don't know what that 20% is, getting a GT3 is an obsession nowadays. At the prices the 997 cars are selling, I am in shock there are people paying and driving them. They are not worth it IMHO.
The first and most important problem I have with the 991 GT3 is that it is not motorsports derived. To most people that does not mean anything, it is similar to ///M no longer means Motorsports, and I understand that. However, a Porsche GT has to be linked to the GT3R and GT3RSR and the GT3 Cup has to be based on the homologation of the GT3RS. The reason I believe that is important is because: - The engine and transmission have to be designed for endurance reliability and quick serviceability
- The chassis and geometries have to be optimized for endurance racing in mind
- The obsession of Porsche on weight is not an accident and comes from strict need and desire to win in endurance racing
- Cooling of all essential mechanical components, including front and rear brakes need to be accounted for in the base car
None of the above are part of the 991 GT3, and to me it is not a GT car, but a marketing ploy, similar to ///M brand. So, if I am right, why would I pay a premium to Porsche over an ///M?
As you probably know, there are major engine and chassis changes to the 991.1 GT3RS. It is supposed to truly homologate the upcoming GT3R that is in testing right now, and the GT3RSR will follow shortly. Wonderful and I am on the list for a 2016 model, but I have to see it win first. It is likely I will wait for 991.2 or 992 GT3RSR just for that reason. It may be silly to most, but it is important to me if I am to pay double the price of an M car.
So, IMHO again, the best performance or sports car from Porsche today is probably the GT4. However, I'd never buy that either because of its compromised rear suspension. Again, if I am to pay a premium to Porsche I want all of the above, not a compromise. If I need to accept a compromise, the best compromise car is an M car in my determination, hence the reason I am here 
Btw, here are my views and discussion with Pete_VB on the topic of GT4 (although he still ordered one and I did not  ), starting with post #28: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...1061058&page=2 |
Thanks for linking those threads, they were pretty good read. Wasn't aware that the rear suspension on the Cayman/Boxster are macpherson struts, but I guess it might to do with the packaging issue with fitting a flat six in a small mid engine chassis.
I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything you said. But it is inevitable that Porsche does away with the old school port injected Mezger engines in search of better efficiency on with newer 9A1 based engines. Nonetheless, chassis upgrades from the Carrera models to the GT3 are substantial, and price that Porsche charges on the GT3 is not so bad in all consideration, IF you can still find a allocation for the 2015-2016 models or a used one that doesn't sell more than the msrp... GT4 is a great car no doubt, but in my opinion it is as much a glorified part-bin special from Porsche as the BMW 1M was (it was nothing more than a 135i with the bolt on M3 suspension parts and some flared fenders...none of which demands the premium that BMW or the used market charges for that car)
On the other hand, GT3 probably has the lowest front clearance of any non-exotic production cars, which will severely limits its drivability in my region, and I don't find the appeal nor have the resource to keep a car as garage queen in the near future. F80 is probably the most logical choice at the moment, given the my familiarity with the chassis, engine, and its aftermarket supports. But the emotional side of my brain has been yelling at myself to get a 911 ever since I was old enough to know what kind of a car it is. Guess I wait and see how does the 991.2 c2s/gts turns out in a few months or just pick up a used 991.1 down the line. From my understanding, if you can confirm, is that even a relatively basic 991 (even more so w/ sport PASM) will out run a well prep'd BMW (due to its stock camber and softly sprung stock suspension), with the same driver and just some track capable tires/brake pads, while still capable as serving as a reasonable DD.