[tony20009]

Originally Posted by RedlinePSI

The way i see it, if you buy a fake watch with the name of a reputable brand on it, you are already "frontin'". Even if asked, and you are too honest to lie about it, you still tried to pull it off without a word spoken. If it didn't have the name on it, then it would be a different story. So this is a sliding scale of exactly how frontin' people be's. haha

You're not the first person to say that, but frankly, I think a great many of you just don't get it. I think a lot of folks on here hear of or encounter folks who buy, say, fake Rolexes as alternatives to "real" Rolexes. And therein lies why I think so many folks struggle with the premise of my OP. For the vast majority of people who buy fake watches, it's not about how the thing compares to a real, say, Rolex. It's not even about how faithfully it resembles one visually. It's just a matter of wanting a mechanical watch that looks good, works, is easy to come by, and that is very inexpensive.

When one lives in the land wherein this is found, the PRC...

MixC Mall



Coco Park Mall


...one definitely can go into either mall and buy a Seiko or Citizen watch. One can also walk into Coco Park mall and buy authentic Vacheron Constantin and JLC watches. (I don't recall seeing a place that sells authentic Rolexes. LOL) But in doing so, one will pay the luxury tax that is assigned to them. That tax will make them cost somewhere between 20% and 60% more than you and I would pay for the exact same watch in U.S. Unfortunately, "not made in China by and for Chinese owned companies" is all it takes for an item to be subject to the luxury tax. (This is why even the iPhone is slapped with the luxury tax. Some foreign manufacturers may have negotiated special exemptions, but AFAIK no Swiss watch companies have.)

Now there probably are shops somewhere in the country that sell Seagull, Memorigin, Longio, Peacock, et al (http://www.blouinartinfo.com/news/st...rands-to-know#) domestically made watches, but I haven't come across them in my random amblings around the city. I'm sure if I sought them out, I could find them. The thing is that just as I haven't come across those makers' products, and I know they must exist, I'd wager that the other 10+ million people in the city who don't know they exist aren't going out of their way to find them, much less have any idea that they are quite good watches.

In contrast, scores upon scores of thousands of people daily make their way to this place literally right outside of Customs....

Luohu Commercial City




....and in there one will have no trouble at all finding all manners of fake watches, handbags, jeans, etc. that'll cost not only a mere fraction of the authentic article(s), but also less than most other authentic goods.

It took me some time (six months to a year) to realize this is so, and when I did, I wondered why it might be that a fake [insert brand of your choice] mechanical watch would cost less even than would an authentic low price mechanical watch such as Parnis, Alpha, and some others. Based on what I've been told by a couple of the fellows who sell fake watches the shopping center above, Parnis, Alpha et al are nothing more than the fake Rolexes, Omegas, et al made with dials that say Parnis, Alpha and so on.

As each of them put it, "Guangzhou people make Parnis and Alpha for United States. Make Rolex for China. Same watch." I said, "Really? You're sure?" One of the sellers whom I asked proceeded to do a little pantomime to show me what he meant...basically he mimed and spoke in his best "Engl-arin/Mandar-glish".... "Guy in Guangzhou zhi zuo shoubiao. Zher li Rolex ; na li Parnis. [Pantomimes taking dial from one pile and putting it on the watch and then doing the same with a dial from the other pile.] Yi yang."

We complimented each other on our language skills, each knowing quite well that neither of us was any good at the other's language. LOL

I asked one of the sellers (one with better English...LOL) why the Parnis watches don't stay in China. The short of his answer is that Chinese people know the fake is a fake, but they also know it is less expensive, and they know it will work well, because, as he put it, "everybody have one." His answer was borne out when I asked a few of the Chinese folks on my projects the same questions.

Now interestingly enough, the very same folks who are quite content with their fake watches feel "special" because they use authentic iPhones. Go figure....I can explain that no more than I can why anyone else anywhere else would feel the same way, albeit perhaps with regard to different products.

Similarly, when I go to the occasionally cookouts to which my client "big wigs" invite me, invariably, brief conversations break out about consumer products -- cars, watches, clothes, etc. Everybody has their own point of view about "stuff." There's always at least one "higher up" person who is suggesting to a less "high up" person that he should get rid of his fake Rolex and buy a real one. Mind you, all the people there are loaded, it's just a matter of how loaded; the homes I've been to for these events range from what in U.S. we'd call big houses to mansions to palaces.

The thing that I sensed is different between those social conversations and some of the comments in this thread is that the "really rich" guys don't seem to think anything about the less "really rich" guys' wearing a fake "whatever," other than that the "poorer" buy should buy a "real" Rolex (or whatever). Now what's funny is that some months later, I may bump into the "poorer" guy and notice that he's gone out and bought himself a real [whatever]. Apparently Chinese are no less susceptible to the pang of social climbing than are Westerners. LOL

And therein is found what I think is going on when I see/hear folks going on about what's "bad" about other folks wearing/owning fake "whatever." I suspect that upon seeing someone wearing a fake version of the watch one paid X-thousands of dollars for and apparently getting exactly the same benefits/functionality, one has to feel at least a little bit foolish for having spent so much more.

In truth, were I not something of a curatorial watch collector, I don't know if I'd spend the kind of money I do on watches. However, as a curatorial collector, I don't have much choice. There's just no way a fake watch (or anything else) can fill an authentic one's "shoes" in terms of building a collection.

For example, the Louvre might have a fake Mona Lisa, but the fake one cannot represent DaVinci because DaVinci didn't paint the fake one. The thing is the Louvre has curatorial aims associated with the pieces it owns. It's quite difficult to create an anthology of a given type of art if one only has copies of it. The copies will do up to a point, but eventually, there just is no substitute for the authentic article.

I think it's the same with watches. But I think that the "point" up to which a copy watch will do, for most folks, is a point that's far enough down the road; that is, the fake is a good enough alternative to other watches, be they the authentic item being aped or something else. In light of that, and when one considers $30 versus $9000, it really isn't about whether the fake is a copy of something. It's just a matter that it's a $30 or less mechanical watch and it really just isn't that easy to buy a new mechanical watch for $30 or less.

All the best.