Thinking of a used M5 (2007-2009) - what should I look for?

[zybar]

For almost the last 3 years I have been leasing a 2011 335i with Xdrive and have really enjoyed it. It has a few small upgrades - 19" wheels, KW1 coilovers, and a software tune. It is fun to drive and has been issue free.

However, I have always "wanted" an M5 and could use the extra room as my two sons are getting older and bigger. ;-)

If I went with an M5, I would be looking at a used model circa 2007-2009 in order to fit into my budget.

Are there any issues or concerns I should be looking out for when buying used?

Here is a local example I am considering:

http://www.bmwofsudbury.com/used/BMW...031a05a8e1.htm

Thanks in advance for your help and thoughts.

George

[Hoopumpers]

Such a phenomenal machine. I still miss that car. Nice work on selecting a manual as well.

Get a pre-purchase inspection and just go for it!

[RPiM5]

George,

Honestly you would probably get a better response from the M5Board community since their E60 M5 is still very very active and has libraries of information on the E60 M5. However, Hoopumpers and I are both prior E60 M5 owners and can speak a lot about ownership of that particular car.

I agree with Hoopumpers, it was such a phenomenal machine, and definitely do still miss mine a lot. Sometimes I wonder if I ever should have gotten rid of it, but I know I made the right decision, especially with the mileage on mine approaching 100,000 miles just before I sold it.

Anyways, I would have reccomended you just go for a used F10 M5 since you can find them in the $70K price range nowadays but since you alluded to that may not be within your budget there are still a few E60 M5's on the used market that are in very good condition.

The E60 M5 is a fantastic car for what it is and was truly inspired by BMW F1 Motorsport back in it's heyday. Now modern technology has surpassed that older F1 stuff and it's sad, but a lot of it is still more or less obsolete when comparing it what is coming out from today's manufacturers.

Your number 1 concern with an E60 M5 is reliability. They break often and break bad. With a 2010 model year you might fair a little better but as the mileage gets tacked on you really need to keep up on preventative maintenance. Oil changes every 5,000 miles minimum and those S85 engines use the expensive stuff. I recently saw an M5 that had a engine that finally failed at 261,000 miles, which is the exception and not the rule. I had to get a whole new engine at only 69,000 miles on mine. Also, get your oil analyzed after every oil change, any sign of a high metallic count PPM and you want to take preventative action. The E60 M5's have very very finicky electrical and electronic systems. Alternators, front control arm bushings, side view mirrors, and batteries are all very common issues as well. I haven't even mentioned the SMG yet. In some cases the clutch is nothing but a ticking time bomb, in other cases, the SMG hydro pump is another bomb.

The upsides are plenty as well though. There are literally thousands of modding options. 8,300rpm and the engine can be easily tuned to remove the top speed limiter if you ever feel the need to take her up to 211mph like I did. The higher you rev the engine the more rewarded you feel in the E60 M5, the V10 literally sings. Even with the stock exhaust the induction sound of the V10 is so beautiful. With an aftermarket exhaust, be prepared for almost an all out F1 race car experience, just so much fun. The E60 M5 is a lot lighter than the F10 but it's suspension design is not as advanced. It's still a great handling 4,000lbs sedan though.

Anways, get yourself over to M5Board and they will answer any all questions for you.

Cheers,

RPiM5




Of course this is the best reason why you should get an E60 M5 as well.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

[zybar]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'll look over at M5board as well.

George

[Hoopumpers]

That video is just heaven. I miss the days when BMW made spine tingling cars. I think I need to go buy another one of those!!! I know the performance isn't there anymore, but I don't think I care. So good.

Do it George!

[Hoopumpers]

Dave, drive up to NJ and swap for this beauty:

http://m.autotrader.com/vdp.html?id=357068773

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Dave, drive up to NJ and swap for this beauty:

http://m.autotrader.com/vdp.html?id=357068773

LOL! Don't tempt me.

[TonySCV]

The #1 most critical decision it appears you have already made - go with the manual. Avoid the SMG.

[zybar]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Dave, drive up to NJ and swap for this beauty:

http://m.autotrader.com/vdp.html?id=357068773

Nice car!

Just a little more than a I want to spend right now.

I am really hoping to keep it under $40k.

George

[avlnch]

I have owned 3 E60 M5's.

2006 - Not reliable. Bad tech.
2008 - Interior Updates, better tech.
2010 - Much better tech. Very reliable, solid car. I loved this car and this was my favorite model year.

I would recommend getting a 2010.

Also agree with RPIM5. M5Board is the place for the E60 M5. Any question you can have just search and you'll get a good answer. Or post a new topic.

I miss my E60. Fun car. Some lucky SOB is driving my individual frozen grey 2010 E60 M5 right now (I like to check up on my old cars via carfax). Hope he's enjoying the free front & read jammers, DINAN suspension, and DINAN pulley.

My other cars were all crashed to pieces. Bastards..

[zybar]

Guys,

I am waiting for my account to have posting privileges over at the M5 forum, so in the meantime, I have a few questions:

Looking at the maintenance history of the 2008 M5 I am interested in, it doesn't appear to have had any major issues. :-)

Are there any mandatory or highly recommended maintenance items coming up around 45k miles?

Any major issues or gotchas that I should expect to pop up around 45k miles (like replacing the clutch)?

Thanks again,

George

[jcolley]

Let me know if your M5board account doesn't clear up soon, I'll take care of it.

As for 45k miles, things that are potential problems:

- throttle actuators. mechanical failures due to crap materials chosen for internal gearing. Not uncommon and not cheap to replace. Other solutions (i.e. aftermarket gears) are coming, only one source available yet.

- rod bearings. The subject has been beat to death on multiple forums, but they should be considered a wear item if they have never been replaced. Many cars go well over 100k miles without replacement, but many owners (including myself) have changed theirs out and noted signficant wear. BMW has released updated oil specifications allowing the use of LL01 oils. There is a large group of us who have switched to Mobil1 0W-40. Plenty of info there on this subject.

- VANOS problems. These are two-fold in nature: First is the VANOS pump. This was redesigned in late 11/05 with taller drive teeth as faliure mitigation. This seems to have cleared up many of the outright pump failures. Second is the high pressure discharge line. Seems BMW decided to fit the flexible high pressure discharge line to the high pressure pump without sufficient strain relief and the union between the hard pipe and flexible line starts to leak. This was covered in an SI B and replaced on many cars, but has still been problematic on a few since. Cheap part, rough labor charge to get at it.

- SMG. I know you are specifically looking at 6MT, but I would highly recommend you drive both and be certain. I have an SMG with 74 k miles and have learned quite a bit about the transmission. BMW's greatest failing on this (IMO) was failure to include routine calibrations as part of the Condition Based Service (CBS). This leads to rough operation and shortens clutch life. Often times, the rough operation is fixed by recalibrating and this will prolong clutch life. Pump motors were early failures due to a bad batch of brushes supplied to Getrag on early builds and was corrected by SI B as well. I don't think we've had a single member report needing a pump motor replaced in the last year on M5board. There is also an updated clutch release bearing which addresses galling of the CRB to the guide bushing many have reported. This smooths things out significantly. I had 73k on my SMG when I pulled the clutch last month. If I didn't already have the spare clutch and flywheel in the garage, I would have probably reused the old one for at least another 25k miles. Massive repair bills were generated over the years on the SMG due to poor understanding and training practices resulting in an inordinate amount of unnecessary part replacements.

Aside from that, at 45k you probably have a good chance of avoiding any major issues for quite some time.

If you pick one up, let us know. I'm only about an hour north of you and always willing to help out. I just did my own VANOS pump, high pressure line, rod bearings, clutch, flywheel, fuel injectors, radial seals, and I forget what else, so I'm getting pretty familiar with the car.

[zybar]

Jcolley,

Thanks for the great email and detailed thoughts.

I could use some help with the M5board. While I am now registered, a day later I still can't post.

George

[jcolley]

George,

Same username? I don't see it there in the user list.

[zybar]

Originally Posted by jcolley

George,

Same username? I don't see it there in the user list.

Yes.

Account is active and I can log in.

George