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      Yesterday, 02:00 PM   #331
davis449
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Lockdown the schools, have multiple armed officers on campus, and arm the teachers who are willing to be trained and put their lives on the line. This is the only way considering the other ways these incidents could be minimized just won't happen (i.e. better parenting, discipline in schools, etc.). Beat those solutions like gun confiscation and more gun control laws to death all you morons want, NONE of it will solve the problem, much less come to fruition in this country.

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Agreed. So how is America going to be a better parent?
"America" is not a parent, nor should it EVER be. I know your country is your parent and most of you like it that way. They babysit every single one of you. Cameras everywhere, stupid PC laws, etc. I, for one, don't EVER want to live in a country like that. No one here gives a CRAP about your opinions as a UK citizen concerning the laws and rights of U.S. citizens. This is one of our rights that does cause some rather undesirable results, but does so in a statistically small relevance compared to our overall population, it demographics, and other causes of death here. You have PLENTY that do the same in your own country. Stop parroting this nonsensical, ridiculous question like a jackass at everyone as though you've honed in on some question of ultimate truth.

Bluntly put, the 1,077 lives lost to "mass shootings", though tragic, aren't worth it, to me, the loss of my 2nd amendment right that allows me to be responsible for my own safety. For that matter, neither is the rest of the gun violence in this country. I absolutely LOVE the fact that everyone gets all crazy and calls the NRA, its members, gun manufacturers, etc. MURDERERS when something like this happens. Yet NONE of you are in here every single day posting threads concerning the same in regards to car manufacturers, alcoholic beverage producers, their distributors, and retailers of the same thing when, combined and by your definition, kill TONS more people 18 and under. When I start seeing those threads every single day in here with equal or more outrage, I just might start taking you dolts seriously. The bottom line is that rights cost lives...innocent or otherwise. Almost every one of the Bill of Rights, and the amendments that follow it, have and will continue to cost innocent lives. That's just reality. You want liberty, blood must be shed.

I have been near death twice in my life. I wake up 5 days a week and my last thought before I shut the door to my car to leave for work is that this could very well be my last day on earth. I could be shot, have a brain aneurysm, a heart attack, or (far more likely) die in a fucking car wreck. I would never want any of the entire U.S. population's rights violated or taken away due to some asshole individual's actions toward me. The truth here is that this kid made the decision to murder people and that was it. Who's fault is that? HIS. Yeah, you can place slices of blame anywhere you want (his parents', school environment, society as a whole, etc.) but the overwhelming majority of fault lies with the shooter. He did what he did and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. That's it.
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      Yesterday, 02:33 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
I'm not just putting the sole onus on video games & media
As I've said before its a societal problem of which that listed are influential examples
This society is more and more de-sensitized to all manners of violence
Each movie which comes out tries to outdo the previous in gore and the manner people are killed or have their limbs cut off
Tell me this is not gradually de-sensitizing.. even I am apalled at times..
In addition, the jokes are getting overly lude and shocking as opposed to witty and twisty..

All of this conveys to young mind that :
life is cheap
violence is a good solution
shock value is good for getting attention
This just isn't true. At all.
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      Yesterday, 02:58 PM   #333
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      Yesterday, 03:08 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
This just isn't true. At all.
^^^^^^^^
Agreed
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      Yesterday, 03:24 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Common values such as respect, pride, decency, helping others, patriotism and humility seem to have taken a back seat today.
The really difficult question is how we as societies fix this?
Maybe we should start by not electing public officials that don't embody any of those ideals.

Starting from the very top.
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      Yesterday, 03:36 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
This just isn't true. At all.
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Hell if it aint.
I'm afraid that there is evidence that this type of desensitization is taking place and leads to more violent and aggressive thoughts and may also lead to increased violent behavior.

Further one only need look at any research involving child-soldiers in Africa and other places. They gradually desensitize to the kids to violence one step at a time until they are finally comfortable with killing on command.

An excerpt from UNICEF:

Once recruited, children undergo varying degrees of indoctrination, often verging on the brutal. While in the early 1980s rebel groups in El Salvador offered primary school instruction, usually the training offered is less benevolent. Indigenous children in Peru, who have been forced to join guerrilla bands, have undergone long periods of forced political indoctrination. And others have suffered particularly brutal forms of induction. Some rebel groups in Cambodia and Mozambique turned children into fierce warriors by subjecting them to a brief period of terror and physical abuse—'socializing' them into violence. Much the same thing has been happening more recently in Sierra Leone, where in 1995 the Revolutionary United Front has been raiding villages to capture children into its ranks and force them to witness or take part in the torture and execution of their own relatives. Thus outlawed and brutalized, and often fed crack or other drugs, the children have been led to neighbouring villages to repeat the exercise.

https://www.unicef.org/sowc96/2csoldrs.htm
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      Yesterday, 03:44 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
There is an offshoot to this topic. Cell phone use, including texting is responsible for far more deaths than mass shootings, but nobody is talking about regulating cell phones. It is the instrument that people are attacking - not the deaths of young people.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ody-s-counting
There are several states that have laws prohibiting people from using cell phones while driving so I guess someone must be talking about it

Also, and this comes up in almost every gun thread, its disingenuous to compare accidental deaths such as a car wreck to intentional acts of murder using a weapon (gun) designed to kill.

But anyway, I think the most obvious precautionary steps revolve around hardening schools. Limited entry points, armed guards, metal detectors, proper ID, perhaps uniforms for students, etc. I think these things will have a much greater and more immediate impact on keeping schools safe rather than more/new gun laws. Plus, they are generally things most people can agree on and arent polarizing like guns are.
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      Yesterday, 05:23 PM   #338
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We desensitize our own soldiers. Same concept been working for years to get them to kill. Prior to Vietnam shoot rate by soldiers was like 20 percent. Faced with death even most are incapable of killing another until now it seems
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      Yesterday, 05:32 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
There are several states that have laws prohibiting people from using cell phones while driving so I guess someone must be talking about it

Also, and this comes up in almost every gun thread, its disingenuous to compare accidental deaths such as a car wreck to intentional acts of murder using a weapon (gun) designed to kill.

But anyway, I think the most obvious precautionary steps revolve around hardening schools. Limited entry points, armed guards, metal detectors, proper ID, perhaps uniforms for students, etc. I think these things will have a much greater and more immediate impact on keeping schools safe rather than more/new gun laws. Plus, they are generally things most people can agree on and arent polarizing like guns are.
Yep, I live in Texas where it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving a car, which obviously includes texting. That means nothing to people today. I see people on their cell phones and texting while driving every day.

I don't consider a car crash that was caused by someone texting or being distracted by their cell phone to be an accident. It is a deliberate act caused by their selfish desire for instant gratification. No accident.
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Last edited by SakhirM4; Yesterday at 05:54 PM.
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      Yesterday, 07:21 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Yep, I live in Texas where it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving a car, which obviously includes texting. That means nothing to people today. I see people on their cell phones and texting while driving every day.

I don't consider a car crash that was caused by someone texting or being distracted by their cell phone to be an accident. It is a deliberate act caused by their selfish desire for instant gratification. No accident.
Curious how quickly things would change if auto insurance policies started excluding ‘accidents’ caused by mobile phone use.
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      Yesterday, 08:10 PM   #341
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These arguments about guns are interesting from the standpoint that most gun owners are very protective of their rights-at least on this forum, but it is clear to the majority of Americans-many who are gun owners that change is coming. By spouting cliche responses like "they are trying to take all our guns" and "next, they'll take away our freedom of speech", you endanger your very own easy access to gun ownership for when things "swing" the other way, it'll likely be too far and more punitive for your tastes.Why not take the initiative, propose realistic restrictions and be happier in the end. Change is a comin'.

I read Lups report of what it the rules in Finland are, and it appears to me that there is a lot of vetting, a lot of training and if you are a headcase, you have trouble getting a gun., and you must belong to a club. Automobiles are dangerous in the wrong hands, and we all take driver training, we have to pass tests, we have to obey traffic laws or we lose our privileges, and we must have liability insurance.

Good luck trying to maintain the way things are now. Its likely a fantasy and the pendulum has already swung.
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      Yesterday, 08:15 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
There are several states that have laws prohibiting people from using cell phones while driving so I guess someone must be talking about it

Also, and this comes up in almost every gun thread, its disingenuous to compare accidental deaths such as a car wreck to intentional acts of murder using a weapon (gun) designed to kill.

But anyway, I think the most obvious precautionary steps revolve around hardening schools. Limited entry points, armed guards, metal detectors, proper ID, perhaps uniforms for students, etc. I think these things will have a much greater and more immediate impact on keeping schools safe rather than more/new gun laws. Plus, they are generally things most people can agree on and arent polarizing like guns are.
Yep, I live in Texas where it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving a car, which obviously includes texting. That means nothing to people today. I see people on their cell phones and texting while driving every day.

I don't consider a car crash that was caused by someone texting or being distracted by their cell phone to be an accident. It is a deliberate act caused by their selfish desire for instant gratification. No accident.
Whether people obey a law or not is another story, but the law exists and its intent is aimed at public safety. Perhaps officers should enforce it more and pull people over that are using a cell phone. I know I prob see at least one person texting while driving every day.

In terms of someone distracted while driving and causing a wreck, it is certainly a negligent act and clearly that person would be at fault. However, unless the person deliberately crashed into the other vehicle it's still an accident. Intent is the key which is why I said it's unfair to compare accidental death from a car wreck to intentional murder with a gun.
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      Yesterday, 08:23 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Whether people obey a law or not is another story, but the law exists and its intent is aimed at public safety. Perhaps officers should enforce it more and pull people over that are using a cell phone. I know I prob see at least one person texting while driving every day.

In terms of someone distracted while driving and causing a wreck, it is certainly a negligent act and clearly that person would be at fault. However, unless the person deliberately crashed into the other vehicle it's still an accident. Intent is the key which is why I said it's unfair to compare accidental death from a car wreck to intentional murder with a gun.
And I said that I disagree. When you knowingly break a law and it causes and crash that kills someone that is not an accident.

Negligent homicide is an intent crime and is used as a charge when one person causes the death of another through criminal negligence. The charge does not involve premeditation, but focuses on what the defendant should have known and the risks associated with what he did know.
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      Yesterday, 08:56 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Whether people obey a law or not is another story, but the law exists and its intent is aimed at public safety. Perhaps officers should enforce it more and pull people over that are using a cell phone. I know I prob see at least one person texting while driving every day.

In terms of someone distracted while driving and causing a wreck, it is certainly a negligent act and clearly that person would be at fault. However, unless the person deliberately crashed into the other vehicle it's still an accident. Intent is the key which is why I said it's unfair to compare accidental death from a car wreck to intentional murder with a gun.
And I said that I disagree. When you knowingly break a law and it causes and crash that kills someone that is not an accident.

Negligent homicide is an intent crime and is used as a charge when one person causes the death of another through criminal negligence. The charge does not involve premeditation, but focuses on what the defendant should have known and the risks associated with what he did know.
Per a quick google search I found the definition of negligent homicide to be:

Negligent homicide is the killing of another person through gross negligence or without malice. It often includes death that is the result of the negligent operation of a motor vehicle, which includes the operation of a boat or snowmobile. It is characterized as a death caused by death by conduct that grossly deviated from ordinary care. Negligent homicide may be charged as a lesser-included offense of manslaughter. It is also sometimes referred to as "involuntary manslaughter".

It specifically says without malice and is interchangeable with involuntary manslaughter, involuntary of course being the key word.

So yea it's dumb/irresponsible/negligent/selfish, etc to drink and drive, text and drive or what have you. But unless you deliberately crash into something/someone it's still an accident. Anyway this is way off topic and I think my point is clear.
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      Yesterday, 09:40 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Per a quick google search I found the definition of negligent homicide to be:

Negligent homicide is the killing of another person through gross negligence or without malice. It often includes death that is the result of the negligent operation of a motor vehicle, which includes the operation of a boat or snowmobile. It is characterized as a death caused by death by conduct that grossly deviated from ordinary care. Negligent homicide may be charged as a lesser-included offense of manslaughter. It is also sometimes referred to as "involuntary manslaughter".

It specifically says without malice and is interchangeable with involuntary manslaughter, involuntary of course being the key word.

So yea it's dumb/irresponsible/negligent/selfish, etc to drink and drive, text and drive or what have you. But unless you deliberately crash into something/someone it's still an accident. Anyway this is way off topic and I think my point is clear.
We've been through this...there is no such thing as an auto accident. They are now called crashes. One person is assigned fault.
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