What the heck happened to BMW?

[S EyeLand]

Originally Posted by mirob

Best Motoring

I've owned my E36 M3 for 20+ years now (it even outstayed my E46 M3). I encourage some of you to go drive these hero cars and see how they hold up vs what you remember. Prepare for disappointment.

Ugh i hate to open this can of worms but this happened to my father and I at a ford dealership. He was looking at buying a Roush so I took the ride with. They had an e39 M5 on the lot which the salesperson swore I would sell my F10 M5 for at the time or that my father would forgo the Roush and get the M5. After hearing about this car for the entirety of my life, we both took turns test-driving it with high expectations. My father and I both agreed the F10 comparison was joke. I think this would be like comparing a Super Nintendo to a PS5, The SNES was/is great, had great games and reminds me of my childhood and good times but of course the PS5 is better in every measurable way. Neither my father or I had any prior experience with the e39, so it was just performance to performance, and it wasn't even a question. Not to poo poo on the e39, I couldn't care less about car loyalty but every time I hear "BeSt M5", I just cringe when I think back at that test drive and compare it to a modern M. Great for its time, I'll take people's word for it... have we moved on to bigger and better things? Absolutely.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by S EyeLand

Ugh i hate to open this can of worms but this happened to my father and I at a ford dealership. He was looking at buying a Roush so I took the ride with. They had an e39 M5 on the lot which the salesperson swore I would sell my F10 M5 for at the time or that my father would forgo the Roush and get the M5. After hearing about this car for the entirety of my life, we both took turns test-driving it with high expectations. My father and I both agreed the F10 comparison was joke. I think this would be like comparing a Super Nintendo to a PS5, The SNES was/is great, had great games and reminds me of my childhood and good times but of course the PS5 is better in every measurable way. Neither my father or I had any prior experience with the e39, so it was just performance to performance, and it wasn't even a question. Not to poo poo on the e39, I couldn't care less about car loyalty but every time I hear "BeSt M5", I just cringe when I think back at that test drive and compare it to a modern M. Great for its time, I'll take people's word for it... have we moved on to bigger and better things? Absolutely.

That's just the sad reality.

The E39 M5 had god-status in it's heyday and deservedly so. There was no Audi, Merc, or Cadillac to challenge its supremacy in a meaningful way.

The F90 is a fantastic car in its own right but the competition understands the recipe now and are building just as good or better drivers cars. Took them two decades to catch up.

Competition in the sports sedan segment is stronger than ever. Whether that is by engineering or reverse engineering is a different conversation.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by alex2364

As opposed to defending calling others delusional? Perhaps read the entire thread.

Look up what "drinking the Kool Aid" means. Take some time to really understand the phrase. Come back here when the irony hits you.

We'll wait...

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by mirob

Look up what "drinking the Kool Aid" means. Take some time to really understand the phrase. Come back here when the irony hits you.

We'll wait...

No need to look up anything when you already admitted to it.

Originally Posted by mirob

I'd drink a gallon of Kool Aid before participating in the F8X circle jerk you're part of.

[pbonsalb]

I am not blindly loyal to BMW, but have had some good ones, like a 1973 E3 Bavaria, 1979 E24 635csi, 1999 E36 M3 (still have), 1999 E39 528i, 2008 E70 X5 4.8i, 2008 E61 535xi (still maintain), 2008 E90 M3, and 2018 F90 M5 (still have). I liked all of those.

In late 2020, I wanted a newer SUV to replace the 535xi wagon and went to BMW to test drive a 2021 X5 40i x-drive M Sport. It drove like a truck. We went to the Porsche dealer and drove a Cayenne base. It drove really well. We could not believe it so we went back to BMW and drove the X5 again. It was truly a truck in comparison. We went back to Porsche and yes, there was a night and day difference. We liked the Porsche enough to pay the premium, but I also wanted a little more power. My wife thought the GTS with 4.0L V8 and blacked out wheels and trim and sport exhaust looked like a gangster car and sounded like a truck so we compromised on a new Cayenne S model with 2.9L TT V6. We like it and plan to keep it.

In 2021, I wanted a comfortable sedan to replace the 2008 M3, so I looked at Audi RS7, Porsche Panamerica Turbo, Cadillac Blackwing, and BMW M5. I bought a CPO M5. It weighed the least, performed the best in a straight line, and the handling seemed OK. I wanted AWD so the Blackwing was not really in the running. The Panamerica handles better but it was heavier, more expensive, and wider.

Right now, the Tesla Plaid looks like a bargain at $90k new, but I am not really in the market.

Anyway, look around, test drive, and buy what you like.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by S EyeLand

Ugh i hate to open this can of worms but this happened to my father and I at a ford dealership. He was looking at buying a Roush so I took the ride with. They had an e39 M5 on the lot which the salesperson swore I would sell my F10 M5 for at the time or that my father would forgo the Roush and get the M5. After hearing about this car for the entirety of my life, we both took turns test-driving it with high expectations. My father and I both agreed the F10 comparison was joke. I think this would be like comparing a Super Nintendo to a PS5, The SNES was/is great, had great games and reminds me of my childhood and good times but of course the PS5 is better in every measurable way. Neither my father or I had any prior experience with the e39, so it was just performance to performance, and it wasn't even a question. Not to poo poo on the e39, I couldn't care less about car loyalty but every time I hear "BeSt M5", I just cringe when I think back at that test drive and compare it to a modern M. Great for its time, I'll take people's word for it... have we moved on to bigger and better things? Absolutely.

I have no thoughts or opinions on your experience with the E39 versus the F10. I like the F10 fairly well and I have nothing against it, but there is no disputing that by the time the 5er got to the F10 generation it had become a boat and the only saving grace for its handling dynamics was Active Roll Stabilization. I haven’t driven the E39 5er much, but I have driven the E60 5er quite a lot and the F10 5er’s driving dynamics were a dramatic departure from the E60. I haven’t driven an F90, but the G30 5er is pure luxury highway cruiser.

[S EyeLand]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I have no thoughts or opinions on your experience with the E39 versus the F10. I like the F10 fairly well and I have nothing against it, but there is no disputing that by the time the 5er got to the F10 generation it had become a boat and the only saving grace for its handling dynamics was Active Roll Stabilization. I haven’t driven the E39 5er much, but I have driven the E60 5er quite a lot and the F10 5er’s driving dynamics were a dramatic departure from the E60. I haven’t driven an F90, but the G30 5er is pure luxury highway cruiser.

Are we talking about M5s or 5 series generally?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by S EyeLand

Are we talking about M5s or 5 series generally?

In all honesty when I was talking about the F10 dynamics I had the regular 5er in mind. I honestly can’t remember if I’ve ever driven an F10 M5. Obviously it would have a considerably more robust suspension setup than the regular 5er. But that doesn’t completely negate the fact that both the F generation and G generation 5ers are substantially bigger and heavier than the previous E generations.

[S EyeLand]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

In all honesty when I was talking about the F10 dynamics I had the regular 5er in mind. I honestly can’t remember if I’ve ever driven an F10 M5. Obviously it would have a considerably more robust suspension setup than the regular 5er. But that doesn’t completely negate the fact that both the F generation and G generation 5ers are substantially bigger and heavier than the previous E generations.

I see. I think this is something a lot of people say but when they drive an F10M5 or F90 the first thing they mention is how tight and nimble the car feels. Even my X5Ms I've owned surprise people when they've driven them. BMW is getting better and better at producing these beasts, the formula for TQ, HP, suspension and weight is working very well based on my experience owning M cars.

[Nicky77]

BMW seems to have veered off track lately. Once synonymous with luxury and performance, the brand's recent decisions have left many scratching their heads. From controversial design choices to a shift in focus towards electric vehicles, BMW appears to be undergoing a profound identity crisis. Some loyalists lament the departure from the brand's heritage, while others see it as a necessary evolution. Regardless, the once-revered automaker now finds itself in a turbulent period, facing both criticism and uncertainty about its future direction.