Cadillac CT4 and CT5 Blackwing

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by See5

Do you think people looking for M5's and RS7's are buying S7's and M550's? No.

Yes, that is exactly what is happening. Many M5 shoppers end up buying the reasonably priced M550.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I test drove one w all of the hype... it handled and steered very well but it ended there. Build quality, engine sounding like a vaccuum and that joke of a dash out of a cobalt w an auto tranny that should have been in a 70s Plymouth aside... it was... well acceptable lol.

It has to be noted the ATS-V TTV6 engine sounds terrible. I don't know what they did for modifications to the new model but this may be one of those cars that actually needs fake intake noises.

[tna3]

The CT4 Blackwing (6-speed) sets up as a direct competitor to the M3 (6 speed). The specs are so close, can't wait to see these cars go head to head in tests. One thing I have to applaud Cadillac is not de-tuning the 6-speed. They have the proper dual disc clutch hardware to handle 445 foot-lbs of torque. Where as BMW doesn't invest in beefing up the drivetrain, all manuals capped around 400 foot-lbs no matter the engine.

[damnitBobby]

CT5-V looks better to me. Just better proportions and if I’m buying a domestic product then V8 is the only way to go.

The problem with these cars is the price isn’t nearly as bargain as it may appear. If the CT4-V blackwing is $60k starting that’s only a few thousand less than the M3. Then once you option them up the difference grows less or stays the same. Then you run into the conundrum of if you’re spending this much money why not spend just a little more for what you really want.

In the end I really want the M3 even if I have to spend a little more.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by See5

Every car in this class is made in limited numbers.

This car isn't on SC2's either. It wears 4S just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I’m confused, too. Which class of cars is this? Mention some of the competitors please.

Originally Posted by See5

Every 600+ midsize forced induction V8 sports sedan.

Originally Posted by AlexFL

So how many of those are there on the market?

I can think of a Dodge Charger Hellcat, but those are not made in limited numbers. Any other cars?

These are not being built in limited numbers, like a M5 CS model for example.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

If the CT4-V blackwing is $60k starting that’s only a few thousand less than the M3. Then once you option them up the difference grows less or stays the same.

Difference in msrp is $10k, that is significant actually. You can option a M3 quite high as well, over $100k now. I'd expect the price difference to remain the same with options. Now that the M3 is the ugliest car in the segment, the game is wide open.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Are you saying that GM will sell 5000 blackwings per year? At least the preorder is limited to 250 per car. Also, not to ignore, BMW/Merc/Audi sell worldwide.

GM isn't limiting pre-orders. They are just offering a launch edition with a number plate for the first 250 cars produced. After that it is normal production numbers like previous model. Similar to what Mercedes does with AMG cars and the "Edition One". It is to hype the launch. If the first 250 numbered cars are pre-ordered, they will continue to take deposits for normal production.

Originally Posted by See5

The normal CT5-V is the CTS Vsport from the last generation. They aren't being cross shopped. If you're walking in for a CT5-V Blackwing you know what you're looking for and its not the CT5-V. Do you think people looking for M5's and RS7's are buying S7's and M550's? No.

Exactly.

CT5-V Black is actually $2k less than the last model of CTS-V(2019) it is replacing. This guy thinks these Blackwings are going to be some limited production car ala CS BMW models. Simply not the case, they just changed nomenclature. CTS V-Sport = CT5-V and CTS-V = CT5-V Blackwing

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

GM isn't limiting pre-orders. They are just offering a launch edition with a number plate for the first 250 cars produced. After that it is normal production with previous model. Similar to what Mercedes does with AMG cars and the "Edition One". It is to hype the launch. If the first 250 numbered cars are pre-ordered, they will continue to take deposits for normal production.

Exactly.

CT5-V Black is actually $2k less than the last model of CTS-V(2019) it is replacing.

According to Cadillac:

Originally Posted by Cadillac

Cadillac is not announcing 2022 model-year production volumes, but V-Series Blackwing production will be limited.

I'm not so sure they are gonna make as many as before. I think they are going to use this reservation/wait list system to gauge future production numbers, and then build accordingly. They won't be super low like under 1500, like a CS, but there's a possibility it will be restricted like the Lexus LC to a certain number of cars a year, or it could be like the CT6 which had multiple rounds of pre-orders/reservations, or it could be an order-only situation, similar to how MB and Audi sell their High-Performance Wagons. Not much is really known at this point in time.

The product planner in a Jalopnik video mentioned that they know it is a small niche so they are aiming for a more exclusive experience and won't disclose production numbers at the moment.

[AlexFL]

Btw, the small block 6.2L V8 has been banned in Europe due to emission rules. I know we Americans could not care less about Europe, emissions, and environmental protections but I thought I should still bring this up.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

According to Cadillac:
I'm not so sure they are gonna make as many as before. I think they are going to use this reservation/wait list system to gauge future production numbers, and then build accordingly. They won't be super low like under 1500, like a CS, but there's a possibility it will be restricted like the Lexus LC to a certain number of cars a year, or it could be like the CT6 which had multiple rounds of pre-orders/reservations, or it could be an order-only situation, similar to how MB and Audi sell their High-Performance Wagons. Not much is really known at this point in time.

The product planner in a Jalopnik video mentioned that they know it is a small niche so they are aiming for a more exclusive experience and won't disclose production numbers at the moment.

They should expect similar demand to the CTS-V as the Blackwing is actually less expensive and virtually a direct replacement with the same powerplant.

[TSM330i]

I like these cars and I like what they've done with them.

Looks like they've improved on everything from the CTS-V and ATS-V.

The standard manual is just icing on the cake. Yes, I love manuals and if I were in a market for this type of vehicle, I would highly consider it. I have two cars that are manual (GTI and C2). The driver involvement and control is worth it to me vs. 0-60 times. Blasting to 60mph gets old after a while. I would much rather heel & toe going into a corner and perfectly hitting the apex and accelerating out.

Yes, the Cadillacs will get trounced 0-60mph because they don't have AWD. I'm fine with that. They don't weigh 4,500lbs+ either, which will help with braking and handling. The price point is really good too with so much potential and fun.

If you're worried about 0-60mph - go buy a Tesla. They're automatic and AWD too and will trounce anything in acceleration save a hyper exotic.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Btw, the small block 6.2L V8 has been banned in Europe due to emission rules. I know we Americans could not care less about Europe, emissions, and environmental protections but I thought I should still bring this up.

Too bad they can’t just fix that with some software. Too soon?

[spool twice]

the interior is compromised in terms of plastics, yes I understand modern cars have plastic interiors...

- But the door card of the standard CT5 has hard touch lower door panel plastics, a reverse of the last gen CTS which had vinyl/soft touch injection molded plastics that had a "wrapped" look with its contrast stitching.

- The center console tunnel can be flexed right/left

But honestly for the price, its a great deal. I love the styling, it has road presence IMHO even in standard form, and the standard CT5-V drives great, the blackwing should only be better. GM does magnetic suspension tuning very very well!

I only wish they didn't go so subtle with the styling cues, the last gen CTS had aggressive upgrades, hood bulge, side skirts, etc etc where you knew it was a CTS-V right away.

The CT-4 looks great as well, until you see the diaper on the back end (trunk lid). It looks droopy in person, which makes you wonder why they didn't mimic the CT-5's rear end in the license plate frame area.

[swanson]

[Gdiddy23]

I thought I read somewhere the CT5-V would eventually come w an AWD option? Was that just a rumor? I thought I saw it in a leaked options list the other day

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Gdiddy23

I thought I read somewhere the CT5-V would eventually come w an AWD option? Was that just a rumor? I thought I saw it in a leaked options list the other day

The V is for sale with an AWD option, this article is about the V Blackwing (a trim level higher).

[chassis]

0-60 in 3.8s has me interested.

How is Caddy’s reliability these days?

[Gdiddy23]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

The V is for sale with an AWD option, this article is about the V Blackwing (a trim level higher).

https://www.cadillacvnet.com/cadilla.../#.YBqyKqROLDv

[jmack]

I think Caddy did a great job with both of these. The styling isn't exactly my cup of tea, but they did a better job with the quirky/ugly-just-to-stand-out design than the G22/G8X. Plus it still comes with a manual.

The second gen CTS-V is still one of my favorite cars of all time and I hope these are a success for Cadillac, even though I'm sure they will be commercial failures.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I soon as I saw this thread, I was waiting on the "Yeah, but the interior sucks" post and boom, there you have it.

Lol.

So like, were you waiting on that bc you realize that the interior actually does suck?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

So like, were you waiting on that bc you realize that the interior actually does suck?

No, the perception and bias is what’s speaking these days. Not the reality.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

No, the perception and bias is what’s speaking these days. Not the reality.

Pretty sure the interior just plain sucks